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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    So you acknowledge Jews are still Jews.
    Jews are a religion, not a race. They are Jews today only in that they are a cult of a wicked form of Judaism. Just as JW's are a cult of a wicked form of Christianity.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

      Jews are a religion, not a race. They are Jews today only in that they are a cult of a wicked form of Judaism. Just as JW's are a cult of a wicked form of Christianity.
      Paul says there is still a remnant, which will be grafted back in:

      Rom 11.1I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? [a]Far from it! For I too am an Israelite, [b]a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3“Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.” 4But what [c]is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.” 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s [d]gracious choice. 6But if it is by grace, it is no longer [e]on the basis of works, since otherwise grace is no longer grace.

      There is a part of Israel which is chosen, not because it has obeyed perfectly, but because it BELIEVED God's word, which says all the Law has to be observed. The other part was not faithful, saying like those in the Garden, "Did God really say that?"

      They taught that not all the Law was to be observed, only those parts that showed they were children of Abraham, circumcision, fasting, tithing and they neglected the weightier requirements of the law, justice mercy and faithfulness.

      Were it not for the presence of Jews in Israel, like Elizabeth and Zacharias and the Publican in the Temple, she would have disappeared, become extinct, like Sodom and Gomorrah.

      So even today, the presence of Jews who believe God requires all the law to be obeyed in Israel preserves her, till all things become fulfilled, when she will be grafted back into the People of God.
      Last edited by footwasher; 03-18-2021, 05:57 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

        Paul says there is still a remnant, which will be grafted back in:

        Rom 11.1I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? [a]Far from it! For I too am an Israelite, [b]a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3“Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.” 4But what [c]is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.” 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s [d]gracious choice. 6But if it is by grace, it is no longer [e]on the basis of works, since otherwise grace is no longer grace.

        There is a part of Israel which is chosen, not because it has obeyed perfectly, but because it BELIEVED God's word, which says all the Law has to be observed. The other part was not faithful, saying like those in the Garden, "Did God really say that?"

        They taught that not all the Law was to be observed, only those parts that showed they were children of Abraham, circumcision, fasting, tithing and they neglected the weightier requirements of the law, justice mercy and faithfulness.

        Were it not for the presence of Jews in Israel, like Elizabeth and Zacharias and the Publican in the Temple, she would have disappeared, become extinct, like Sodom and Gomorrah.

        So even today, the presence of Jews who believe God requires all the law to be obeyed in Israel preserves her, till all things become fulfilled, when she will be grafted back into the People of God.
        God turned all the broken off into Gentiles. Some of these come to Christ during the times of the gentiles which last until the end of the world. In this way, all Israel, the Church, will be saved.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

          God turned all the broken off into Gentiles. Some of these come to Christ during the times of the gentiles which last until the end of the world. In this way, all Israel, the Church, will be saved.
          Those who are under the Law are Jews. Some drove out the slave woman and her son and became Gentiles. They received the promise made to Abraham, as planned:

          Gal 3.13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A [u]TREE”— 14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

          Looks like you are ungifted:

          1 Kings 18.25So Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose the one ox for yourselves and prepare it first, since there are many of you, and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under the ox.26Then they took the ox which [i]was given them and they prepared it, and they called on the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, “O Baal, answer us!” But there was no voice and no one answered. And they [j]limped about the altar which [k]they had made. 27And at noon Elijah ridiculed them and said, “Call out with a loud voice, since he is a god; undoubtedly he is attending to business, or is on the way, or is on a journey. Perhaps he is asleep, and will awaken.” 28So they cried out with a loud voice, and cut themselves according to their custom with swords and lances until blood gushed out on them. 29When midday was past, they raved until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice; but there was no voice, no one answered, and [l]no one paid attention.
          Last edited by footwasher; 03-20-2021, 10:16 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

            Those who are under the Law are Jews. Some drove out the slave woman and her son and became Gentiles. They received the promise made to Abraham, as planned:

            Gal 3.13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A [u]TREE”— 14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

            Looks like you are ungifted:

            1 Kings 18.25So Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose the one ox for yourselves and prepare it first, since there are many of you, and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under the ox.26Then they took the ox which [i]was given them and they prepared it, and they called on the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, “O Baal, answer us!” But there was no voice and no one answered. And they [j]limped about the altar which [k]they had made. 27And at noon Elijah ridiculed them and said, “Call out with a loud voice, since he is a god; undoubtedly he is attending to business, or is on the way, or is on a journey. Perhaps he is asleep, and will awaken.” 28So they cried out with a loud voice, and cut themselves according to their custom with swords and lances until blood gushed out on them. 29When midday was past, they raved until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice; but there was no voice, no one answered, and [l]no one paid attention.
            There are no physical BIBLICAL Jews since Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. They are Gentiles with a false Judaism religion.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

              There are no physical BIBLICAL Jews since Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. They are Gentiles with a false Judaism religion.
              Paul said the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles.

              He admitted he became a Gentile, because he says 'we would receive'.

              Comment


              • Christs death produces saving results in that by it the Children of God/Sheep/Church is gathered unto God Jn 11:50-52

                50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

                51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

                52 And not for that nation only, but that [in order that] also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

                Clearly the purpose of His dying for that nation [jews] but not them only[gentiles] was for the gathering of them together to form them into One People unto God. This is also expressed earlier in John here Jn 10:16

                15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

                16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

                The word bring here serves the same purpose as the word gather in Jn 11:52.

                The word gather means συνάγω:

                to lead together, bring together, come together (pass.), entertain
                Usage: I gather together, collect, assemble, receive with hospitality, entertain.

                to join together, join in one (those previously separated):

                This speaks to the jews and gentiles being once separated, now being brought together by the death of Christ Eph 2:11-19
                11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

                12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

                13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

                14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

                15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

                16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

                17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

                18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

                19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
                Click to expand...

                This gathering was prophesied in the OT here Gen 49:9-10

                9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

                10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

                Christ is Shiloh. This is probably what Caiaphas the high priest was moved to utter about Jn 11:49ff

                The word for gathering in Gen 49:10 is the word yᵊqāhâ:

                obedience, cleansing, purging,; obedience:—gathering, to obey.69

                The Death of Christ was designed to bring together the people of God from among all nations to the obedience of the Faith, under One Head.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                  Christs death produces saving results in that by it the Children of God/Sheep/Church is gathered unto God Jn 11:50-52

                  50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

                  51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

                  52 And not for that nation only, but that [in order that] also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

                  Clearly the purpose of His dying for that nation [jews] but not them only[gentiles] was for the gathering of them together to form them into One People unto God. This is also expressed earlier in John here Jn 10:16

                  15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

                  16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

                  The word bring here serves the same purpose as the word gather in Jn 11:52.

                  The word gather means συνάγω:

                  to lead together, bring together, come together (pass.), entertain
                  Usage: I gather together, collect, assemble, receive with hospitality, entertain.

                  to join together, join in one (those previously separated):

                  This speaks to the jews and gentiles being once separated, now being brought together by the death of Christ Eph 2:11-19
                  11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

                  12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

                  13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

                  14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

                  15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

                  16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

                  17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

                  18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

                  19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
                  Click to expand...

                  This gathering was prophesied in the OT here Gen 49:9-10

                  9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

                  10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

                  Christ is Shiloh. This is probably what Caiaphas the high priest was moved to utter about Jn 11:49ff

                  The word for gathering in Gen 49:10 is the word yᵊqāhâ:

                  obedience, cleansing, purging,; obedience:—gathering, to obey.69

                  The Death of Christ was designed to bring together the people of God from among all nations to the obedience of the Faith, under One Head.
                  Brightfame52, we find it very difficult to converse with you. If you read the posts from the beginning, you seem to have problems, either with the language, or with mentally understanding ideas. You should see a doctor and get fixed. Please come back after that. Hope you understand. We must have good conversation here, to be good witnesses to the world. Readers should not think we are unwell, or accept conversations that are confused. We must make good impressions, or at least seen to be trying. Thanks for understanding.

                  Comment



                  • It is a heresy and false teaching if Christ's death alone does not guarantee a saving result for them He died for ! This applies to those who also teach that Christ died in some non redemptive way for the non elect ! That is, God had subordinate purposes to redemption, which Christs death did not ensure a saving, converting result !91

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                      Brightfame52, we find it very difficult to converse with you. If you read the posts from the beginning, you seem to have problems, either with the language, or with mentally understanding ideas. You should see a doctor and get fixed. Please come back after that. Hope you understand. We must have good conversation here, to be good witnesses to the world. Readers should not think we are unwell, or accept conversations that are confused. We must make good impressions, or at least seen to be trying. Thanks for understanding.
                      Do you want to discuss the post or not sir ?

                      Comment


                      • ったく
                        Until Heaven and Earth pass away, not the least part of the law shall pass, until all has been fulfilled. But if the law had been perfect, no occasion would have been found to introduce a second. But now, there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
                        Either of two conditions were able to cause the law to pass (Koine Greek texts do not leave room for doubt) - 1/ Heaven and Earth pass away. 2/ Everything would be brought to pass. What happened on the cross?
                        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                        Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        "It is not divine truth that makes the man seem more innocent in what is equally sinful, but human wrong-headedness." AUGUSTINE: re adultery

                        "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                          ったく
                          Until Heaven and Earth pass away, not the least part of the law shall pass, until all has been fulfilled. But if the law had been perfect, no occasion would have been found to introduce a second. But now, there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
                          Either of two conditions were able to cause the law to pass (Koine Greek texts do not leave room for doubt) - 1/ Heaven and Earth pass away. 2/ Everything would be brought to pass. What happened on the cross?
                          Hi, do you want to discuss the post ? Post 367

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                            Hi, do you want to discuss the post ? Post 367
                            I don't think that I could improve on what you have stated there.
                            1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                            Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            "It is not divine truth that makes the man seem more innocent in what is equally sinful, but human wrong-headedness." AUGUSTINE: re adultery

                            "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              I don't think that I could improve on what you have stated there.
                              That doesnt mean you cannot discuss it. What did you understand me to be saying ? How does it exalt Christ ?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                                It is a heresy and false teaching if Christ's death alone does not guarantee a saving result for them He died for ! This applies to those who also teach that Christ died in some non redemptive way for the non elect ! That is, God had subordinate purposes to redemption, which Christs death did not ensure a saving, converting result !91
                                To all who accepted him, he gave authority to become sons of God. Jesus died that all might become sons of God - not that all become sons of God. The difference is profound.
                                1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                                Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                "It is not divine truth that makes the man seem more innocent in what is equally sinful, but human wrong-headedness." AUGUSTINE: re adultery

                                "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                                Comment

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