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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    fw



    Absolutely false. Repentance was given Israel, not a opportunity Acts 5:31

    1 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
    So why was Israel cut off?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

      Remember in Romans 11, God removed all unbelievers from Israel and added believing Gentiles in their place. Only the unbelievers perished in the siege of Jerusalem in AD 70. Spiritual Israel (true Israel) escaped and remains as the Church today.
      Wrong. The text clearly says Israel was cut off. They would have perished, become extinct, like Sodom and Gomorrah, if God hadn't used grace, and forgiven the remnant. Even today, there is a remnant in Judaism, who are faithful, under law, fasting, tithing, keeping Sabbath, without neglecting the weightier requirements of the law, justice, mercy and faithfulness.

      The Church is NOT Israel. Israel is those who have been given the Old Covenant, Jews not Gentiles. Only Jews have been given the Sinaitic Covenant. When they finally drive out the slave woman and her son, then they will again be gathered into Abraham's family.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

        Wrong. The text clearly says Israel was cut off. They would have perished, become extinct, like Sodom and Gomorrah, if God hadn't used grace, and forgiven the remnant. Even today, there is a remnant in Judaism, who are faithful, under law, fasting, tithing, keeping Sabbath, without neglecting the weightier requirements of the law, justice, mercy and faithfulness.

        The Church is NOT Israel. Israel is those who have been given the Old Covenant, Jews not Gentiles. Only Jews have been given the Sinaitic Covenant. When they finally drive out the slave woman and her son, then they will again be gathered into Abraham's family.
        They were cut off and are now gentiles who think they are Israel. They exist for one reason. Their hatred of God (Christ) and remain under His wrath as a gentile nation.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

          So why was Israel cut off?
          Circumcision made one a physical Jew or Physical member of Israel. Christ abolished circumcision on the cross.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

            Circumcision made one a physical Jew or Physical member of Israel. Christ abolished circumcision on the cross.
            You are right that circumcision decides who is a Jew. That's why Jews are still Jews, and are not Gentiles.

            Christ didn't come to abolish the Law for Israel. Not one one jot, nor one tittle of the law will pass away, till every thing is fulfilled.
            Last edited by footwasher; 03-15-2021, 01:25 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

              You are right that circumcision decides who is a Jew. That's why Jews are still Jews, and are not Gentiles.

              Christ didn't come to abolish the Law for Israel. Not one one jot, nor one tittle of the law will pass away, till every thing is fulfilled.
              Once you learn how Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, you will understand Paul.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                Once you learn how Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, you will understand Paul.
                Why don't you explain? You should if you have received the Holy Spirit. The text says He ascended on high and gave gifts to men.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                  Why don't you explain? You should if you have received the Holy Spirit. The text says He ascended on high and gave gifts to men.
                  I experienced the fruit of the Spirit over a three-day period and it caused me to believe in Christ. That was at a time God was the last thing on my mind.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                    So why was Israel cut off?
                    Thats a different matter.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                      I experienced the fruit of the Spirit over a three-day period and it caused me to believe in Christ. That was at a time God was the last thing on my mind.
                      The text says He gave gifts to men. It allowed them to explain Scripture that had puzzled people for centuries. This opening of Scripture was like a rescue:

                      John 12.32And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.

                      These rescues caused people like Rahab and Nicodemus to be drawn to those through whom God performed the rescues:

                      1 Cor 14.24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

                      So with your gift please explain the Scripture you provide, of how the cross abolished circumcision. Judaism still requires circumcision, and God is going to graft Judaism back into the family of Abraham.
                      Last edited by footwasher; 03-17-2021, 02:51 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                        Thats a different matter.
                        No it isn't.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                          The text says He gave gifts to men. It allowed them to explain Scripture that had puzzled people for centuries. This opening of Scripture was like a rescue:

                          John 12.32And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.

                          These rescues caused people like Rahab and Nicodemus to be drawn to those through whom God performed the rescues:

                          1 Cor 14.24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

                          So with your gift please explain the Scripture you provide, of how the cross abolished circumcision. Judaism still requires circumcision, and God is going to graft Judaism back into the family of Abraham.
                          Your "gift" has not kicked in yet if you think the rite of circumcision still turns gentiles into biblical Jews.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                            Your "gift" has not kicked in yet if you think the rite of circumcision still turns gentiles into biblical Jews.
                            My gift says Paul taught God's word has not failed, Israel's calling has not been revoked. The hardening is only temporary. The veil will be removed and Israel will grafted back in.

                            Now don't change the subject. Use your gift, if you have any, to explain why circumcision has been abolished for Jews, when Jesus said not one jot will be removed from the Law.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                              My gift says Paul taught God's word has not failed, Israel's calling has not been revoked. The hardening is only temporary. The veil will be removed and Israel will grafted back in.

                              Now don't change the subject. Use your gift, if you have any, to explain why circumcision has been abolished for Jews, when Jesus said not one jot will be removed from the Law.
                              So Hitler and their being slaughtered in 114 other nations does not verify God's wrath on them since 70AD?
                              Last edited by Dave L; 03-17-2021, 02:28 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                                So Hitler and their being slaughtered in 114 other nations does not verify God's wrath on them since 70AD?
                                So you acknowledge Jews are still Jews.

                                Comment

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