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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    “But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.” Romans 11:4–5 (KJV 1900)

    This means God only granted repentance (Salvation) to 7000 from among the Jews. It's not as you assume.
    No. God gave the opportunity to repent to all the Jews. Everyone was given the law. The reactions were different. Those who bowed their knee to baal saw it as a way to identify themselves as children of Abraham. But the stipulation of the law was that if you failed in one observance means you have failed in all. So no one was a child of Abraham. Only when God used a different measure other than performance, works, did SOME pass: when God used grace, which measures success by faith, those who tried to observe all the law were justified. Those who tried to sneak pass, by observing fasting, tithing and Sabbath keeping, but neglecting the weightier requirements of the law, like justice, mercy and faithfulness went home without being justified. This is what Jesus (and John the Baptist) taught. Israel needed to repent, meta-noia, change their mind set about the law, should believe God's words:

    Matt 23.23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.


    Luke 3.7So he was saying to the crowds who were going out to be baptized by him, “You [d]offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Therefore produce fruits that are consistent with repentance, and do not start saying [e]to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children for Abraham. 9But indeed the axe is already being laid at the root of the trees; so every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”

    Abraham's children are identified by faith! The remnant 7000 were justified only when God kept them, used grace, looked only at the sincerity, faith, loyalty of the believer.

    God reworded, interpreted His Covenant in a merciful, gracious, lenient, way. He didn't reprogram the Remnant.
    Last edited by footwasher; 03-02-2021, 10:26 AM.

    Comment


    • This is the proof that I am in the Kingdom of God. Everyone in the Kingdom can open the spiritually blind eyes of the ungifted in the church, be blessings to the world, as they walk in the works prepared in advance by God. God created calamities, darkness, made men blind from birth, recorded difficult Scripture passages, so that He would be glorified when His followers healed sicknesses, explained difficult Scriptures, warm the hearts of those who hear the explanation:

      Luke 24.13And behold, on that very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, which was [g]sixty stadia from Jerusalem. 14And they were talking with each other about all these things which had taken place. 15While they were talking and discussing, Jesus Himself approached and began traveling with them. 16But their eyes were kept from recognizing Him. 17And He said to them, “What are these words that you are exchanging with one another as you are walking?” And they came to a stop, looking sad. 18One of them, named Cleopas, answered and said to Him, “Are You possibly the only one living near Jerusalem [h]who does not know about the things that happened here in these days?” 19And He said to them, “What sort of things?” And they said to Him, “Those about Jesus the Nazarene, who proved to be a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, 20and how the chief priests and our rulers handed Him over to be sentenced to death, and crucified Him. 21But we [i]were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. 22But also some women among us left us bewildered. When they were at the tomb early in the morning, 23and did not find His body, they came, saying that they had also seen a vision of angels who said that He was alive. 24And so some of those who were with us went to the tomb, and found it just exactly as the women also had said; but Him they did not see.” 25And then He said to them, “[j]You foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26Was it not necessary for the [k]Christ to suffer these things and to come into His glory?” 27Then beginning [l]with Moses and [m]with all the Prophets, He explained to them the things written about Himself in all the Scriptures.

      28And they approached the village where they were going, and He gave the impression that He was going farther. 29And so they strongly urged Him, saying, “Stay with us, for it is getting toward evening, and the day [n]is now nearly over.” So He went in to stay with them. 30And it came about, when He had reclined at the table with them, that He took the bread and blessed it, and He broke it and began giving it to them. 31And then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from [o]their sight. 32They said to one another, “[p]Were our hearts not burning within us when He was speaking to us on the road, while He was [q]explaining the Scriptures to us?”

      Comment


      • Paul taught the same teaching:

        1 Cor 14.24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an [k]outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

        As did Jesus:

        John 9.1As Jesus passed by, He saw a man who had been blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

        John 12.32If I am lifted up above the earth, I will make everyone want to come to me."

        John 3.1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2this man came to [a]Jesus at night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these [b]signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born [c]again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

        I could write more, but your poor brain would not be able to absorb it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post
          U

          No. God gave the opportunity to repent to all the Jews. Everyone was given the law. The reactions were different. Those who bowed their knee to baal saw it as a way to identify themselves as children of Abraham. But the stipulation of the law was that if you failed in one observance means you have failed in all. So no one was a child of Abraham. Only when God used a different measure other than performance, works, did SOME pass: when God used grace, which measures success by faith, those who tried to observe all the law were justified. Those who tried to sneak pass, by observing fasting, tithing and Sabbath keeping, but neglecting the weightier requirements of the law, like justice, mercy and faithfulness went home without being justified. This is what Jesus (and John the Baptist) taught. Israel needed to repent, meta-noia, change their mind set about the law, should believe God's words:

          Matt 23.23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.


          Luke 3.7So he was saying to the crowds who were going out to be baptized by him, “You [d]offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Therefore produce fruits that are consistent with repentance, and do not start saying [e]to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children for Abraham. 9But indeed the axe is already being laid at the root of the trees; so every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”

          Abraham's children are identified by faith! The remnant 7000 were justified only when God kept them, used grace, looked only at the sincerity, faith, loyalty of the believer.

          God reworded, interpreted His Covenant in a merciful, gracious, lenient, way. He didn't reprogram the Remnant.
          The law could not save. It only sent people to hell.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

            The law could not save. It only sent people to hell.
            Your argument is with Scripture, not me. This man, under law, like Elizabeth and Zacharias, was found righteous, unlike the Pharisee who neglected the weightier requirements of the law:

            Luke 18.14I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other one; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

            Rest is available, you should enter, then you'll be able to open the eyes of the spiritually blind, be a blessing to the world, receive the Gospel promise.
            Last edited by footwasher; 03-02-2021, 09:43 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

              Your argument is with Scripture, not me. This man, under law, like Elizabeth and Zacharias, was found righteous, unlike the Pharisee who neglected the weightier requirements of the law:

              Luke 18.14I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other one; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

              Rest is available, you should enter, then you'll be able to open the eyes of the spiritually blind, be a blessing to the world, receive the Gospel promise.
              Basic Christianity proves the law could not save. God killed the wicked but preserved the obedient. It has nothing to do with salvation. But believers were born again and saved, though few in number. “The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.” Romans 8:3 (NLT)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                Basic Christianity proves the law could not save. God killed the wicked but preserved the obedient. It has nothing to do with salvation. But believers were born again and saved, though few in number. “The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.” Romans 8:3 (NLT)
                Heb 11.39These were all commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. 40God had planned something better for us, so that together with us they would be made perfect.

                These people were all saved. They didn't receive salvation, but when the means of salvation were given, they were given it.

                God used different instructions to be obeyed to give salvation. With law, the instruction was to believe His words: ALL THE LAW MUST BE OBSERVED. Israel had to fast, tithe, keep the Sabbath, WITHOUT neglecting the weightier requirements of the law, justice, mercy and faithfulness. Elizabeth and Zacharias, and the Publican believed, shown by their humility, indicating their humbleness at not being able to follow the law! They were justified, found righteous! The Pharisees did not believe the straightforward word of God, indicated by their pride in thinking they were kosher. Fail! Went away without being justified!

                So the law had benefits. It was a pedagogos, babysitter, slave, Ishmael, protected Israel until the New Covenant, son, heir, Isaac, was given.
                Last edited by footwasher; 03-03-2021, 09:57 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                  Heb 11.39These were all commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. 40God had planned something better for us, so that together with us they would be made perfect.

                  These people were all saved. They didn't receive salvation, but when the means of salvation were given, they were given it.

                  God used different instructions to be obeyed to give salvation. With law, the instruction was to believe His words: ALL THE LAW MUST BE OBSERVED. Israel had to fast, tithe, keep the Sabbath, WITHOUT neglecting the weightier requirements of the law, justice, mercy and faithfulness. Elizabeth and Zacharias, and the Publican believed, shown by their humility, indicating their humbleness at not being able to follow the law! They were justified, found righteous! The Pharisees did not believe the straightforward word of God, indicated by their pride in thinking they were kosher. Fail! Went away without being justified!

                  So the law had benefits. It was a pedagogos, babysitter, slave, Ishmael, protected Israel until the New Covenant, son, heir, Isaac, was given.
                  Most were wicked beyond belief. On a few born-again believers were among them. Only these had eternal life. God removed the unbelievers turning them back into gentiles after the Cross. Only believers make up the church (Biblical Israel) today.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                    Most were wicked beyond belief. On a few born-again believers were among them. Only these had eternal life. God removed the unbelievers turning them back into gentiles after the Cross. Only believers make up the church (Biblical Israel) today.
                    You got your wires crossed.

                    God took the Kingdom away from His People, and gave to those who were NOT His people, the Gentiles:

                    Gal 3.13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”f 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abrahamg would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                      You got your wires crossed.

                      God took the Kingdom away from His People, and gave to those who were NOT His people, the Gentiles:

                      Gal 3.13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”f 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abrahamg would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
                      How do we differ on this point?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                        How do we differ on this point?
                        You are understanding that God gave repentance only to the remnant in Israel. No!

                        He came and gave the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit to ALL of Israel. Only a few drank rain and produced vegetation. The rest produced thorns and thistles and were burned up.

                        So salvation doesn't depend on being given repentance, opportunity to believe. Salvation depends on using that opportunity loyally, faithfully, by believing.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                          You are understanding that God gave repentance only to the remnant in Israel. No!

                          He came and gave the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit to ALL of Israel. Only a few drank rain and produced vegetation. The rest produced thorns and thistles and were burned up.

                          So salvation doesn't depend on being given repentance, opportunity to believe. Salvation depends on using that opportunity loyally, faithfully, by believing.
                          Why did the Jews reject him so often and kill him when he stood right in front of them?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                            Why did the Jews reject him so often and kill him when he stood right in front of them?
                            This proves that the opportunity to repent was given to Israel, not repentance was given to Israel. And Israel failed to take that opportunity.

                            You say that only the remnant are Israel.

                            But Jesus clearly said His ministry was to Israel, that He would perform faith strengthening miracles only for Israel, and that included non-believing Israel, Chorazin and Bethesda, and Jerusalem, which would not be gathered under Jesus's wings, like those of a mother hen. He specifically said they were God's Children, unlike the Syro-Phoenician woman. They had a written contract.

                            Bottomline, Jews refused to follow Jesus, just like the Israelites refused to follow Joshua, because they didn't want to suffer, they wanted to run away from challenges that Jesus and Joshua asked them to face, pick up crosses, face the Amalekites.

                            Comment


                            • fw

                              This proves that the opportunity to repent was given to Israel, not repentance was given to Israel.
                              Absolutely false. Repentance was given Israel, not a opportunity Acts 5:31

                              1 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

                              32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                                This proves that the opportunity to repent was given to Israel, not repentance was given to Israel. And Israel failed to take that opportunity.

                                You say that only the remnant are Israel.

                                But Jesus clearly said His ministry was to Israel, that He would perform faith strengthening miracles only for Israel, and that included non-believing Israel, Chorazin and Bethesda, and Jerusalem, which would not be gathered under Jesus's wings, like those of a mother hen. He specifically said they were God's Children, unlike the Syro-Phoenician woman. They had a written contract.

                                Bottomline, Jews refused to follow Jesus, just like the Israelites refused to follow Joshua, because they didn't want to suffer, they wanted to run away from challenges that Jesus and Joshua asked them to face, pick up crosses, face the Amalekites.
                                Remember in Romans 11, God removed all unbelievers from Israel and added believing Gentiles in their place. Only the unbelievers perished in the siege of Jerusalem in AD 70. Spiritual Israel (true Israel) escaped and remains as the Church today.

                                Comment

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