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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    You are not in the kingdom if you look for a future millennium. You side with the blind Pharisees and reject Jesus' gospel of the Kingdom.
    The Kingdom has come amongst men:

    Luke 11.20But if I cast out the demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

    You need gifts, the finger of God, to bring people out of Egypt/the world system.

    Exodus 8:19"This is the finger of God," the magicians said to Pharaoh. But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, just as the LORD had said.

    So please strive hard to enter the Kingdom, where you WILL receive these gifts.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

      The Kingdom has come amongst men:

      Luke 11.20But if I cast out the demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

      You need gifts, the finger of God, to bring people out of Egypt/the world system.

      Exodus 8:19"This is the finger of God," the magicians said to Pharaoh. But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, just as the LORD had said.

      So please strive hard to enter the Kingdom, where you WILL receive these gifts.
      I too believe the Kingdom has been here developing since Jesus first preached the gospel of the kingdom. This makes the Pharisee's pre-millennial kingdom a lie.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

        I too believe the Kingdom has been here developing since Jesus first preached the gospel of the kingdom. This makes the Pharisee's pre-millennial kingdom a lie.
        Well the mainstream churches teach that the Kingdom is in Heaven, so their doctrine is a lie too. If you know the Kingdom is already available, then hurry up and enter it too. Strong men like Caleb have already forced their way in.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

          Well the mainstream churches teach that the Kingdom is in Heaven, so their doctrine is a lie too. If you know the Kingdom is already available, then hurry up and enter it too. Strong men like Caleb have already forced their way in.
          The Ecumenical Creeds affirmed that Amillennialism is true. And Premillennialism is heresy. So what you see today is the great end-time apostasy taking place. Few churches are in line with what the bible teaches.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

            The Ecumenical Creeds affirmed that Amillennialism is true. And Premillennialism is heresy. So what you see today is the great end-time apostasy taking place. Few churches are in line with what the bible teaches.
            The Kingdom of God has nothing to do with eschatology. It is a spiritual condition. You can enter the Kingdom of God before the millenial reign of Christ. If you do well within the Kingdom, you will be given more rewards, more cities to rule during the millenial reign of Christ.

            As I said, please try to enter the Kingdom now. Then you will be given more cities to rule when Christ returns.

            Luke 19.7And he said to him, ‘Well done, good slave; since you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to have authority over ten cities.’

            Comment


            • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

              The Kingdom of God has nothing to do with eschatology. It is a spiritual condition. You can enter the Kingdom of God before the millenial reign of Christ. If you do well within the Kingdom, you will be given more rewards, more cities to rule during the millenial reign of Christ.

              As I said, please try to enter the Kingdom now. Then you will be given more cities to rule when Christ returns.

              Luke 19.7And he said to him, ‘Well done, good slave; since you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to have authority over ten cities.’
              The kingdom of God is spiritual. The millennium is a false doctrine of a physical kingdom. Only the born again can see the spiritual kingdom. If you are premillennial, you are probably not born-again. You reject Jesus and his gospel of the kingdom and side with the Pharisees against him. They created premillennialism.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                The kingdom of God is spiritual. The millennium is a false doctrine of a physical kingdom. Only the born again can see the spiritual kingdom. If you are premillennial, you are probably not born-again. You reject Jesus and his gospel of the kingdom and side with the Pharisees against him. They created premillennialism.
                Quote
                Many thoughtful theologians suggest that the differences of the three main types of millennialism should not divide believers as theological views are only tentative basically.[17] If amillennialism agrees with postmillennialism on the millennium followed by the return of Christ, from there they can perhaps start to communicate to each other to assess how much pessimism or optimism they should have. Also, if amillennialism and premillennialism share almost the same degree of pessimism during the millennium, from there they can communicate to each other to assess how symbolic or literal the biblical interpretation should be to reevaluate the temporal relationship between the millennium and the return of Christ.

                ​​​​​​https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org...Amillennialism
                I've not studied eschatology and it's issues because, 1.The information is quite subjective, and 2. Does not contribute to praxis, how believers should live.


                Besides, how do you explain the claim by Paul that believers must hear and believe, and be strengthened by the miracles performed by the Holy Spirit, rain which helps the ground to grow vegetation if believed in?

                Gal 3.5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

                When Abraham heard and believed, he saw God deliver him from King Abhimelech and Pharoah.

                When Caleb heard and believed, he saw God deliver him from thirst and hunger in the desert.

                When Jesus heard and believed, He saw God deliver Him from thirst and hunger in the desert.

                We see that all these treated the miracles, the rain as nourishment, and grew vegetation. Israel ignored the rain and grew thorns and thistles. So they had no faith when they were tested, asked to face the Amalekites, and God swore they would never enter His Kingdom.

                God made Jesus the real Promised Land, the Kingdom of God. He created the inheritance which He could pass on to believers who are IN Christ. So although Abraham and Caleb never received what they were promised, because only when the Cross was conquered did the Kingdom become accessible to believers, Abraham and all the heroes of faith of Hebrews 11 did finally receive the Kingdom, together with us.

                The real question you should be asking is why you never witnessed miracles when you heard and believed.

                That's because you never heard the real Gospel.

                The real Gospel is that the promise made to Abraham is now available, the ability to being blessings to the world by displaying the presence of God in your life, by hearing and believing that God will help you when you face the test:

                1 Cor 15.3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephasa and then to the Twelve. 6After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one of untimely birth.

                Didn't He help Abraham when he was tested in being asked for Isaac's life, just like He helped in saving from King Abhimelech and Pharoah?

                Didn't he help Caleb when he was tested in being asked to face the Amalekites, just like He helped in saving from hunger and thirst in the desert?

                Didn't God appreciate Caleb for remembering His miracles, drinking rain and growing vegetation, having a different spirit, repenting, meta-noia-ing, being born again, and allowing him to enter Canaan, a foreshadowing of the Kingdom he would enter when Christ created that inheritance in the future?

                Didn't God reject Israel for not treating the miracles as helps to form a new spirit, and failing the test of facing the Amalekites?

                Hebrews 6.4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

                7For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.

                You are in a worse position than the Israelites. You haven't even heard the Gospel. Like the believers in Acts 19, you have to listen to John the Baptist:

                Acts 19.4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

                5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                  I've not studied eschatology and it's issues because, 1.The information is quite subjective, and 2. Does not contribute to praxis, how believers should live.


                  Besides, how do you explain the claim by Paul that believers must hear and believe, and be strengthened by the miracles performed by the Holy Spirit, rain which helps the ground to grow vegetation if believed in?

                  Gal 3.5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

                  When Abraham heard and believed, he saw God deliver him from King Abhimelech and Pharoah.

                  When Caleb heard and believed, he saw God deliver him from thirst and hunger in the desert.

                  When Jesus heard and believed, He saw God deliver Him from thirst and hunger in the desert.

                  We see that all these treated the miracles, the rain as nourishment, and grew vegetation. Israel ignored the rain and grew thorns and thistles. So they had no faith when they were tested, asked to face the Amalekites, and God swore they would never enter His Kingdom.

                  God made Jesus the real Promised Land, the Kingdom of God. He created the inheritance which He could pass on to believers who are IN Christ. So although Abraham and Caleb never received what they were promised, because only when the Cross was conquered did the Kingdom become accessible to believers, Abraham and all the heroes of faith of Hebrews 11 did finally receive the Kingdom, together with us.

                  The real question you should be asking is why you never witnessed miracles when you heard and believed.

                  That's because you never heard the real Gospel.

                  The real Gospel is that the promise made to Abraham is now available, the ability to being blessings to the world by displaying the presence of God in your life, by hearing and believing that God will help you when you face the test:

                  1 Cor 15.3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephasa and then to the Twelve. 6After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one of untimely birth.

                  Didn't He help Abraham when he was tested in being asked for Isaac's life, just like He helped in saving from King Abhimelech and Pharoah?

                  Didn't he help Caleb when he was tested in being asked to face the Amalekites, just like He helped in saving from hunger and thirst in the desert?

                  Didn't God appreciate Caleb for remembering His miracles, drinking rain and growing vegetation, having a different spirit, repenting, meta-noia-ing, being born again, and allowing him to enter Canaan, a foreshadowing of the Kingdom he would enter when Christ created that inheritance in the future?

                  Didn't God reject Israel for not treating the miracles as helps to form a new spirit, and failing the test of facing the Amalekites?

                  Hebrews 6.4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

                  7For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.

                  You are in a worse position than the Israelites. You haven't even heard the Gospel. Like the believers in Acts 19, you have to listen to John the Baptist:

                  Acts 19.4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

                  5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
                  You are describing the confusion caused by Premillennialism and Dispensationalism. You are better of remaining ignorant. But if you study Jesus in the gospels and learn the truth about HIS KINGDOM, you will then, and only then understand the bible. Why did the Pharisees reject him? Because they believed like many today who think they are his followers. Reject His Kingdom, cling to a false Christ. That's what is going on today.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                    You are describing the confusion caused by Premillennialism and Dispensationalism. You are better of remaining ignorant. But if you study Jesus in the gospels and learn the truth about HIS KINGDOM, you will then, and only then understand the bible. Why did the Pharisees reject him? Because they believed like many today who think they are his followers. Reject His Kingdom, cling to a false Christ. That's what is going on today.
                    What is the confusion caused by the statements I made?

                    What is the truth about the Kingdom?

                    Don't be vague, give details, if you can.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                      What is the confusion caused by the statements I made?

                      What is the truth about the Kingdom?

                      Don't be vague, give details, if you can.
                      Daniel said the kingdom would come during the time of the ancient Roman Empire. It did. But it is spiritual and only the born again can see it. The rest rejected the gospel of the kingdom expecting the physical premillennial kingdom of the Pharisees instead. This is true today as well.

                      Since the kingdom is spiritual, the OT kingdom prophecies proved to be symbols of the kingdom instead of literal depictions. An example would be Jesus claiming he and the Church is the temple of God. John the Baptist was Elijah. Peter proclaiming the Church is the royal priesthood. That Jesus is Israel according to Matthew and Paul, etc.

                      More if interested.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                        Daniel said the kingdom would come during the time of the ancient Roman Empire. It did. But it is spiritual and only the born again can see it. The rest rejected the gospel of the kingdom expecting the physical premillennial kingdom of the Pharisees instead. This is true today as well.

                        Since the kingdom is spiritual, the OT kingdom prophecies proved to be symbols of the kingdom instead of literal depictions. An example would be Jesus claiming he and the Church is the temple of God. John the Baptist was Elijah. Peter proclaiming the Church is the royal priesthood. That Jesus is Israel according to Matthew and Paul, etc.

                        More if interested.
                        I never denied the Kingdom is spiritual. I said you are not in the Kingdom. Paul knew the believers in Acts 19 were not in the Kingdom by the way they talked and lived and understood about the Kingdom. I can make out you have the same problem too.

                        Now I'm asking you to be baptised into the teaching of Jesus, just like Paul asked those believers to be baptised into that teaching. Then, the process of entering the Kingdom will start, go through many stages and maybe, if you are faithful, you'll be allowed into the Kingdom too.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                          I never denied the Kingdom is spiritual. I said you are not in the Kingdom. Paul knew the believers in Acts 19 were not in the Kingdom by the way they talked and lived and understood about the Kingdom. I can make out you have the same problem too.

                          Now I'm asking you to be baptised into the teaching of Jesus, just like Paul asked those believers to be baptised into that teaching. Then, the process of entering the Kingdom will start, go through many stages and maybe, if you are faithful, you'll be allowed into the Kingdom too.
                          You are judging me and it is sin. You don't even know me. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts is not being baptized in the way you assume. Were you baptized by immersion in water in the name of Jesus Christ?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                            You are judging me and it is sin. You don't even know me. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts is not being baptized in the way you assume. Were you baptized by immersion in water in the name of Jesus Christ?
                            Paul didn't know the believers in Acts 19, but he questioned their status. Did he sin too? Cornelius wasn't immersed, but he received the Holy Spirit, confirming the Gal 3 claim that the Holy Spirit is received upon believing Jesus's teachings. Peter decided to baptise Cornelius AFTER he saw the Spirit was given.

                            I was baptised by immersion in water, in the names of the Trinity. Why do you ask?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                              Paul didn't know the believers in Acts 19, but he questioned their status. Did he sin too? Cornelius wasn't immersed, but he received the Holy Spirit, confirming the Gal 3 claim that the Holy Spirit is received upon believing Jesus's teachings. Peter decided to baptise Cornelius AFTER he saw the Spirit was given.

                              I was baptised by immersion in water, in the names of the Trinity. Why do you ask?
                              The truth is, all born-again believers receive the Holy Spirit since Pentecost. But only the Apostles received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues at that time. The few Gentiles at Cornelius' house also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit some 7 years later and spoke in tongues. The Baptism and the gifts of the Spirit only came through an Apostle's hands other than that. All were baptized by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ. Were you?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                                The truth is, all born-again believers receive the Holy Spirit since Pentecost. But only the Apostles received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues at that time. The few Gentiles at Cornelius' house also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit some 7 years later and spoke in tongues. The Baptism and the gifts of the Spirit only came through an Apostle's hands other than that. All were baptized by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ. Were you?
                                You are jumping to wrong conclusions, making unnecessary distinctions.

                                Look at the text.

                                Gal 3.1[a]You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of [b]the Law, or by hearing [c]with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun [d]by the Spirit, are you now [e]being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you [f]suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works [g]miracles among you, do it by works of [h]the Law, or by hearing [i]with faith?

                                Hear and believe that God can help you overcome all the obstacles between you and Rest, receive the trust strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit. Hear and believe the same message from the Holy Spirit, with proof, and you will be allowed to enter Rest, like Caleb, who had a different spirit, was born again, could see the Kingdom of God.

                                God promised Abraham he would be a blessing to the world by entering the Land he was promised.

                                Abraham heard and believed and the Holy Spirit put him in danger from King Abhimelech and Pharoah, and rescued him. Strengthened by this ministering from the Holy Spirit, his trust was increased, he became a brave person, a different person from how he used to be, was born again, became a new person. When God asked him to sacrifice Isaac, he boldly obeyed, because he knew God would return Isaac back to him.

                                Caleb heard and believed and the Holy Spirit put him in danger from hunger and thirst, and rescued him. Strengthened by this ministering from the Holy Spirit, his trust was increased, he became a brave person, a different person from how he used to be, was born again, became a new person. When God asked him to face the Amalekites, he boldly obeyed, because he knew God would bring him back from the dead.

                                Israel had the same experience, but forgot God. Search for 'they forgot' in Biblehub, and see what it says! When asked to face the Amalekites, they could not draw on the trust required, because although they had once been 'enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have [e]fallen away'.

                                See what happens to the obedient as well as the disobedient:

                                Hebrews 6.7For ground that drinks the rain which often [g]falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and [h]close to being cursed, and [i]it ends up being burned.

                                Chorazin and Bethesda had been given bread meant for children, which had been withheld from 'dogs', Sidon and Tyre, and still had not been born again, repented, meta-noia-ed, changed their doubt.

                                See what Scripture says about how it applies to us, how it is important to receive the Holy Spirit, like Cornelius, and the believers in Acts 19, and even myself:

                                Heb 4.6Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, 7He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying [c]through David after so long a time just as has been said before,


                                “TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,


                                DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.” 8For if [d]Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11Therefore let’s make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same example of disobedience.


                                Also:


                                1 Cor 10.1For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers and sisters, that our fathers were all under the cloud and they all passed through the sea; 2and they all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and they all ate the same spiritual food, 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was [a]Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased; for their dead bodies were spread out in the wilderness.

                                6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they indeed craved them. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND TO DRINK, AND ROSE UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor are we to commit sexual immorality, as some of them [b]did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them [c]did, and were killed by the snakes. 10Nor grumble, as some of them [d]did, and were killed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12Therefore let the one who thinks he stands watch out that he does not fall.
                                ...


                                First you have to hear the right Gospel, not the Mickey Mouse version you got. God told Moses that He could help him and Israel get past all the obstacles that lay between them and Rest. If you hear and believe, you WILL RECEIVE THE TRUST STRENGTHENING MINISTRY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, LIKE CORNELIUS AND THE BELIEVERS IN ACTS 19.
                                Last edited by footwasher; 02-26-2021, 12:44 PM.

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