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Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • brightfame52
    replied
    The problem with man made religion that goes out in the name of Christ is this:

    They don't believe nor acknowledge that Christ Work alone for those He died for, His Sheep, that it made the salvation of their souls sure and effectual !49

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    How was the whole world, non-Jewish, blessed in Abraham?
    Good, you finally want to study the topic. The the text says the heroes of faith in Heb 11 entered the Kingdom along with us:

    Heb 11.39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive [aa]what was promised, 40because God had [ab]provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    To answer my own question, "How was Abraham going to be a blessing to the world?" since you have no clue where this is going, Abraham was going to be a blessing to the world by entering the Promised Land, the Body of Christ, the Temple, the Kingdom, which was created to be accessible to the People of God, by the blood of Christ.

    Jesus was very clear that when he performed signs by the finger of God, it was because He was the Kingdom:

    Luke 11:20But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

    When the Kingdom is manifested through signs, when believers pick up crosses, great works, and God acts to complete those signs, raises up, the world is drawn to God:

    John 3:1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2this man came to [a]Jesus at night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these [b]signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born [c]again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


    Numbers 14:24But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.


    Joshua 2:8Before the spies lay down for the night, Rahab went up on the roof 9and said to them, “I know that the LORD has given you this land and that the fear of you has fallen on us, so that all who dwell in the land are melting in fear of you. 10For we have heard how the LORD dried up the waters of the Red Seab before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites across the Jordan, whom you devoted to destruction.c 11When we heard this, our hearts melted and everyone’s courage failed because of you, for the LORD your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below.

    John 12:32
    ​​​​

    Contemporary English Version
    If I am lifted up above the earth, I will make everyone want to come to me.

    You poor thing, I feel sorry for you for your inadequate, incomplete Gospel. Better get with the program, kid.
    How was the whole world, non-Jewish, blessed in Abraham?

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    Why did Abraham see Canaan as a symbol of heaven, unlike the unbelievers who took the promise literally, as they continue to do today? “For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.” Hebrews 11:14–16 (KJV 1900)
    To answer my own question, "How was Abraham going to be a blessing to the world?" since you have no clue where this is going, Abraham was going to be a blessing to the world by entering the Promised Land, the Body of Christ, the Temple, the Kingdom, which was created to be accessible to the People of God, by the blood of Christ.

    Jesus was very clear that when he performed signs by the finger of God, it was because He was the Kingdom:

    Luke 11:20But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

    When the Kingdom is manifested through signs, when believers pick up crosses, great works, and God acts to complete those signs, raises up, the world is drawn to God:

    John 3:1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2this man came to [a]Jesus at night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these [b]signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born [c]again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


    Numbers 14:24But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.


    Joshua 2:8Before the spies lay down for the night, Rahab went up on the roof 9and said to them, “I know that the LORD has given you this land and that the fear of you has fallen on us, so that all who dwell in the land are melting in fear of you. 10For we have heard how the LORD dried up the waters of the Red Seab before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites across the Jordan, whom you devoted to destruction.c 11When we heard this, our hearts melted and everyone’s courage failed because of you, for the LORD your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below.

    John 12:32
    ​​​​

    Contemporary English Version
    If I am lifted up above the earth, I will make everyone want to come to me.

    You poor thing, I feel sorry for you for your inadequate, incomplete Gospel. Better get with the program, kid.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Come on, don't get so hung up about free will. I am asking what is the purpose of Rest, the Kingdom, which has to be entered, the Promised Land, which Joshua only entered as a type, an analogy?

    Why did God promise Abraham he would be a blessing to the world, and then say he would be given Land?

    In other words, isn't being in the Land, entering Rest, the Kingdom, which would empower Abraham and his descendants to be a blessing to the world?

    Leading to the next question:

    How was Abraham going to be a blessing to the world?
    Why did Abraham see Canaan as a symbol of heaven, unlike the unbelievers who took the promise literally, as they continue to do today? “For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.” Hebrews 11:14–16 (KJV 1900)

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    Only those who do not try to save themselves flexing their "free will" can experience this rest.
    Come on, don't get so hung up about free will. I am asking what is the purpose of Rest, the Kingdom, which has to be entered, the Promised Land, which Joshua only entered as a type, an analogy?

    Why did God promise Abraham he would be a blessing to the world, and then say he would be given Land?

    In other words, isn't being in the Land, entering Rest, the Kingdom, which would empower Abraham and his descendants to be a blessing to the world?

    Leading to the next question:

    How was Abraham going to be a blessing to the world?
    Last edited by footwasher; 01-20-2021, 05:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post



    Why did the author of Hebrews say there is yet a rest to be entered?

    Heb 4.11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
    Only those who do not try to save themselves flexing their "free will" can experience this rest.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    Did you know the signs and wonders confirmed the Apostles? And only those they laid hands on received the baptism of the Holy Spirit? The only exception to this was the Pentecost outpouring on the 12, and the gentile outpouring 7 years later at Cornelius' house. The Baptism with signs and wonders ended before the Apostle's deaths. There are many proofs that today's claims to the gifts are false.


    Why did the author of Hebrews say there is yet a rest to be entered?

    Heb 4.11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
    Last edited by footwasher; 01-20-2021, 12:03 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    The Bible is Pentecostal.

    Your Pastor sending you out on door to door evangelism, without giving you the power to prise people out of the world/Egypt, is like you going to a gunfight with a knife:

    Exodus 4:1¶Then Moses said, “What if they will not believe me or listen fnto what I say? For they may say, ‘The LORD has not appeared to you.’”

    God made sickness and hard to understand Scripture, so that you can solve them, and motivate people to come out of Egypt:

    Ephesians 2:10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

    Isaiah 45:77The One forming light and creating darkness,
    Causing well-being and creating calamity;
    I am the LORD who does all these.

    John 9:1As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth.
    2And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?”
    3Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.
    4“We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work.
    5“While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”

    It's quite clear you aren't in the Kingdom.
    Did you know the signs and wonders confirmed the Apostles? And only those they laid hands on received the baptism of the Holy Spirit? The only exception to this was the Pentecost outpouring on the 12, and the gentile outpouring 7 years later at Cornelius' house. The Baptism with signs and wonders ended before the Apostle's deaths. There are many proofs that today's claims to the gifts are false.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    Are you Pentecostal?
    The Bible is Pentecostal.

    Your Pastor sending you out on door to door evangelism, without giving you the power to prise people out of the world/Egypt, is like you going to a gunfight with a knife:

    Exodus 4:1¶Then Moses said, “What if they will not believe me or listen fnto what I say? For they may say, ‘The LORD has not appeared to you.’”

    God made sickness and hard to understand Scripture, so that you can solve them, and motivate people to come out of Egypt:

    Ephesians 2:10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

    Isaiah 45:77The One forming light and creating darkness,
    Causing well-being and creating calamity;
    I am the LORD who does all these.

    John 9:1As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth.
    2And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?”
    3Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.
    4“We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work.
    5“While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”

    It's quite clear you aren't in the Kingdom.
    Last edited by footwasher; 01-19-2021, 02:47 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Jesus describes the marks of those in the Kingdom as being able to do signs through the finger of God, something Nicodemus confirmed:

    John 3.2this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these fnsigns that You do unless God is with him.

    So what signs are you able to perform?
    Are you Pentecostal?

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    The kingdom arrived with Jesus as Daniel said, in the times of the ancient Roman Empire. Only the born-again can see it and enter it. Premillennialism is a false Pharisee doctrine that will never be.
    Jesus describes the marks of those in the Kingdom as being able to do signs through the finger of God, something Nicodemus confirmed:

    John 3.2this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these fnsigns that You do unless God is with him.

    So what signs are you able to perform?

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Do you agree that the Kingdom of God is available in this present life, which calls for us to enter it now, so that we can through the finger of God, be a blessing to the world?

    Luke 11:20But if I cast out the demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

    Heb 4:6Since, then, it remains for some to enter His rest, and since those who formerly heard the good news did not enter because of their disobedience, 7God again designated a certain day as “Today,” when a long time later He spoke through David as was just stated: “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.
    The kingdom arrived with Jesus as Daniel said, in the times of the ancient Roman Empire. Only the born-again can see it and enter it. Premillennialism is a false Pharisee doctrine that will never be.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    Do you know most reject Christ's gospel of the kingdom today and side with the Pharisees believing in their pre-millennial kingdom?
    Do you agree that the Kingdom of God is available in this present life, which calls for us to enter it now, so that we can through the finger of God, be a blessing to the world?

    Luke 11:20But if I cast out the demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

    Heb 4:6Since, then, it remains for some to enter His rest, and since those who formerly heard the good news did not enter because of their disobedience, 7God again designated a certain day as “Today,” when a long time later He spoke through David as was just stated: “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    They agree that the Gospel is not about going to heaven. It's about being a blessing and leading a purposeful life resulting in treasure that does not perish.

    It will be interesting if you ask what the Gospel is in the N T Wright group or the TWeb Group in Facebook where others like me are posting.
    Do you know most reject Christ's gospel of the kingdom today and side with the Pharisees believing in their pre-millennial kingdom?

    Leave a comment:

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