The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[footwasher]

This is not biblical. You need to study the scriptures and stop adding to them.

That's funny. I'm quoting Scripture, and you're saying it's not Scriptural.

Ephesians 2.7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it ^a says:

“When he ascended on high,

he took many captives

and gave gifts to his people.” ^b

9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ^c ? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.


The gift is not the Holy Spirit. To be a gift, something must be given free. But the Holy Spirit is not given freely. It is given only on being loyal, hearing and believing.

The real gifts are the gifts of solving problems, picking up crosses and being raised up by God, taking up difficult matters for explanation and having the explanation given by God:

Mark 13.11And when they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you at that time; for you are not the ones speaking, but it is the Holy Spirit.

[Dave L]

That's funny. I'm quoting Scripture, and you're saying it's not Scriptural.

Ephesians 2.7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it ^a says:

“When he ascended on high,

he took many captives

and gave gifts to his people.” ^b

9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ^c ? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.


The gift is not the Holy Spirit. To be a gift, something must be given free. But the Holy Spirit is not given freely. It is given only on being loyal, hearing and believing.

The real gifts are the gifts of solving problems, picking up crosses and being raised up by God, taking up difficult matters for explanation and having the explanation given by God:

Mark 13.11And when they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you at that time; for you are not the ones speaking, but it is the Holy Spirit.

Satan quotes scripture. But you need to harmonize scripture before you can understand it. You are choosing and picking only some scripture that bolsters your position. If you want to learn if your position is true or not, you need all pertinent scripture, not just the ones you like. God sends strong delusion to those who do not love the truth. And they also ignore the scriptures they do not like.

[brightfame52]

Even the ability to come to Christ in faith is a gift based upon the cross of Calvary. At the cross, Christ purchased for His people the Grace to believe in His name Phil 1:29

²⁹ For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

Gal 6:14

¹⁴ But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.59

[footwasher]

Satan quotes scripture. But you need to harmonize scripture before you can understand it. You are choosing and picking only some scripture that bolsters your position. If you want to learn if your position is true or not, you need all pertinent scripture, not just the ones you like. God sends strong delusion to those who do not love the truth. And they also ignore the scriptures they do not like.

What Scripture am I ignoring?

[footwasher]

Even the ability to come to Christ in faith is a gift based upon the cross of Calvary. At the cross, Christ purchased for His people the Grace to believe in His name Phil 1:29

²⁹ For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

Gal 6:14

¹⁴ But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.59

There is nothing in those Scripture quotes which says God made some people follow Jesus, and made others not to follow Him.

[Dave L]

What Scripture am I ignoring?

Here's what you need to prove. That the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts were for all, not just the Apostles in Acts. And for those, they laid their hands on.

Also, try to prove there were more than two outpourings of the Spirit with the gifts. Put up your arguments and I will show you where they fail.

[footwasher]

Here's what you need to prove. That the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts were for all, not just the Apostles in Acts. And for those, they laid their hands on.

Also, try to prove there were more than two outpourings of the Spirit with the gifts. Put up your arguments and I will show you where they fail.

When Paul reached Ephesus, he found believers. He was quite worried that they were ordinary, not gifted people. So he helped them to become gifted.

Acts 19.1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when ^a you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

“John’s baptism,” they replied.

4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues ^b and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.

[brightfame52]

There is nothing in those Scripture quotes which says God made some people follow Jesus, and made others not to follow Him.

What do the scriptures say here ?

[footwasher]

What do the scriptures say here ?

Show me how it says God made some undeserving people follow Jesus, and prevented other deserving people from doing the same.

[Dave L]

When Paul reached Ephesus, he found believers. He was quite worried that they were ordinary, not gifted people. So he helped them to become gifted.

Acts 19.1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when ^a you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

“John’s baptism,” they replied.

4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues ^b and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.

Paul laid hands on them so they could receive the gifts. Further proof the gifts came only through an Apostle's hands after the two outpourings. = no Apostles, no gifts. “And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:18 (KJV 1900)

[brightfame52]

Christ death results in the salvation of those He died for, so much so, He is called the Captain of their Salvation Heb 2:10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Mine you, this is in the context of having tasted death for every man in Vs 9. Through and by His death, or His suffering unto death, He became the Captain of their Salvation, through tasting[experiencing] death. Now the word captain is the greek word archēgos and means:

the author, that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause

So by His sufferings, tasting death, He became the originator, the active cause, Captain of their Salvation. It was by this means the Father ordained many sons to Glory.

BTW the word captain is the same word author in Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Christ is the author/source of our Faith. This would include the OT Saints that went before in Heb 11 as well. Christ their Mediator was the source of their faith. 63

[brightfame52]

Show me how it says God made some undeserving people follow Jesus, and prevented other deserving people from doing the same.

You not paying attention to what Im showing you already.

[footwasher]

Paul laid hands on them so they could receive the gifts. Further proof the gifts came only through an Apostle's hands after the two outpourings. = no Apostles, no gifts. “And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:18 (KJV 1900)

Wrong. Here everyone who believed were filled with the Holy Spirit, and without laying on of hands, not just the Apostles:


Acts 2.1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues a as the Spirit enabled them.


Also here:


Acts 10.44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the [ae]message. 45All the [af]Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had also been poured out on the Gentiles. 46For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter responded, 47“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

[footwasher]

You not paying attention to what Im showing you already.

You the one who don't understand Scripture. The text say that God hopes every person MIGHT look for Him. Nowhere in Scripture it say that God determines definitely that some people will find Him:

Acts 17.26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might feel around for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

[Dave L]

Wrong. Here everyone who believed were filled with the Holy Spirit, and without laying on of hands, not just the Apostles:


Acts 2.1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues a as the Spirit enabled them.


Also here:


Acts 10.44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the [ae]message. 45All the [af]Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had also been poured out on the Gentiles. 46For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter responded, 47“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

This is not true. Show from scripture where it says people spoke in tongues. It was only during the two outpourings or after an apostle laid hands on them. You are adding to scripture in your present claims.