The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[Dave L]

You bet your sweet life.

The Dead Sea Scrolls list out a list of requirements to identify who is a real Jew to the Essene community.

It's exactly how Paul outlines his list of requirements.

The Essene Rabbi called his list the works of the law of the Teacher of Righteousness.

Paul (and James) call the list the requirements of the Eternal Law (the Royal Law, the Law of Liberty).

For the Teacher of Righteousness it was circumcision, Sabbath keeping and dietary restrictions.

For Paul it was faith in Jesus.

Download a copy of 4qmmt. The translation of the Dead Sea Scroll.

It will correct your view that Jews had to do good works. No, they received the promise just by being Jews. Through circumcision. Through being IDENTIFIED as Jews.

But Paul (and Jesus) says the children of Abraham are identified by FAITH, being loyal to God, believing Jesus was Moshiach.

What about Jesus saying the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church? Are you saying the scriptures are worthless?

[footwasher]

So Christians, including the Apostles were in the dark until the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered?

You bet your sweet life.

The Dead Sea Scrolls list out a list of requirements to identify who is a real Jew to the Essene community.

It's exactly how Paul outlines his list of requirements.

The Essene Rabbi called his list the works of the law of the Teacher of Righteousness.

Paul (and James) call the list the requirements of the Eternal Law (the Royal Law, the Law of Liberty).

For the Teacher of Righteousness it was circumcision, Sabbath keeping and dietary restrictions.

For Paul it was faith in Jesus.

Download a copy of 4qmmt. The translation of the Dead Sea Scroll.

It will correct your view that Jews had to do good works. No, they received the promise just by being Jews. Through circumcision. Through being IDENTIFIED as Jews.

But Paul (and Jesus) says the children of Abraham are identified by FAITH, being loyal to God, believing Jesus was Moshiach.

[Dave L]

The sixteenth century theologians never had the Dead Sea Scrolls. These explain that works of the law were a formula that had to be followed in order to be justified. So Luther was wrong in identifying Jews as following works righteousness. Their belief system was based on belief, faith, not works. Jews didn't have to do good works to be justified.. Abraham's descendants were unconditionally promised the privilege of being blessings to the world, a free gift needing no works. The Law was given to IDENTIFY who were Abraham's descendants, those who were circumcised. So the Judaizers were not legalistic. They were only trying to apply Old Covenant GRACE. The gift was free: for Jews. This is the application of the findings of the Dead Sea evidence by the New Perspective. So Luther was wrong.

So Christians, including the Apostles were in the dark until the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered?

[footwasher]

Truth does not change. Historic theology is never out of date. And the entire church finds unity in the Ecumenical Creeds. They state that any who do not agree with them are heretics. Where do you fit? Do you know what they say?

The sixteenth century theologians never had the Dead Sea Scrolls. These explain that works of the law were a formula that had to be followed in order to be justified. So Luther was wrong in identifying Jews as following works righteousness. Their belief system was based on belief, faith, not works. Jews didn't have to do good works to be justified.. Abraham's descendants were unconditionally promised the privilege of being blessings to the world, a free gift needing no works. The Law was given to IDENTIFY who were Abraham's descendants, those who were circumcised. So the Judaizers were not legalistic. They were only trying to apply Old Covenant GRACE. The gift was free: for Jews. This is the application of the findings of the Dead Sea evidence by the New Perspective. So Luther was wrong.

[Dave L]

You mean like Paul insulted believers?

1 Cor 3.2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.

Hebrews 5.12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

I mean, let's face it, you are acting like someone who needs his meds, so if this is the outcome, maybe that's why you settle for the out of date theology. You should really try to keep up to date!

Truth does not change. Historic theology is never out of date. And the entire church finds unity in the Ecumenical Creeds. They state that any who do not agree with them are heretics. Where do you fit? Do you know what they say?

[footwasher]

Do you insult your kid(s) the way you insult believers? This will stunt their development and leave them challenged.

You mean like Paul insulted believers?

1 Cor 3.2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.

Hebrews 5.12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

I mean, let's face it, you are acting like someone who needs his meds, so if this is the outcome, maybe that's why you settle for the out of date theology. You should really try to keep up to date!

[Dave L]

Duh, I'm quoting the NT, not the OT. Seriously, did you take your meds?

Do you insult your kid(s) the way you insult believers? This will stunt their development and leave them challenged.

[footwasher]

Ask yourself, how Jesus would not violate his teachings working with children in love? OT law was for the most wicked people on earth. Is your family in that category?

Duh, I'm quoting the NT, not the OT. Seriously, did you take your meds?

[Dave L]

Heb 12.8But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Ask yourself, how Jesus would not violate his teachings working with children in love? OT law was for the most wicked people on earth. Is your family in that category?

[footwasher]

What I'm saying is that you only make clean the outside of the cup by force. Love does a better job and sets an example of Christ.

Heb 12.8But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

[Dave L]

Yes, there is a famous proverb which says children obey out of fear, adults, out of choice and old men, out of understanding.

A bit like how children are afraid of getting a grounding, but we obey traffic lights not because we are afraid of a ticket, but because we choose to.

What I'm saying is that you only make clean the outside of the cup by force. Love does a better job and sets an example of Christ.

[footwasher]

You only train your kid like a dog. He still wants to disobey but is afraid of you.

Yes, there is a famous proverb which says children obey out of fear, adults, out of choice and old men, out of understanding.

A bit like how children are afraid of getting a grounding, but we obey traffic lights not because we are afraid of a ticket, but because we choose to.

[Dave L]

John 9.1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

God made a man blind from birth, so that when Jesus healed him, people would be motivated to turn to God. So the final result is a blessing.

When I punish my child for disobeying me, he learns to listen to me. The next time I give him instructions, like not to play in traffic, he instinctively obeys me, even though he may not understand why. In the final situation, the punishment I gave him before was not a bad thing.

So also with God.

You only train your kid like a dog. He still wants to disobey but is afraid of you.

[footwasher]

Scripture says God creates and sends evil. You are not familiar with scripture, or you edit it to your liking producing an idol to your liking. Here's a sample of scripture you ignore.

“And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:20–23 (KJV 1900)

Is God sinning? Or using sin to judges sinners?

John 9.1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

God made a man blind from birth, so that when Jesus healed him, people would be motivated to turn to God. So the final result is a blessing.

When I punish my child for disobeying me, he learns to listen to me. The next time I give him instructions, like not to play in traffic, he instinctively obeys me, even though he may not understand why. In the final situation, the punishment I gave him before was not a bad thing.

So also with God.

[Dave L]

If I said my words make you into a fool if they are true, doesn't it mean that it only makes you into a fool if they are true?

If you didn't understand what I said about Clark in short form, here it is again:

If Clark's words are true, then it makes God a sinner, but only if those words are true, which they obviously are not.

'K?

Scripture says God creates and sends evil. You are not familiar with scripture, or you edit it to your liking producing an idol to your liking. Here's a sample of scripture you ignore.

“And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:20–23 (KJV 1900)

Is God sinning? Or using sin to judges sinners?