The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[footwasher]

The Ecumenical Creeds affirmed that Amillennialism is true. And Premillennialism is heresy. So what you see today is the great end-time apostasy taking place. Few churches are in line with what the bible teaches.

The Kingdom of God has nothing to do with eschatology. It is a spiritual condition. You can enter the Kingdom of God before the millenial reign of Christ. If you do well within the Kingdom, you will be given more rewards, more cities to rule during the millenial reign of Christ.

As I said, please try to enter the Kingdom now. Then you will be given more cities to rule when Christ returns.

Luke 19.7And he said to him, ‘Well done, good slave; since you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to have authority over ten cities.’

[Dave L]

Well the mainstream churches teach that the Kingdom is in Heaven, so their doctrine is a lie too. If you know the Kingdom is already available, then hurry up and enter it too. Strong men like Caleb have already forced their way in.

The Ecumenical Creeds affirmed that Amillennialism is true. And Premillennialism is heresy. So what you see today is the great end-time apostasy taking place. Few churches are in line with what the bible teaches.

[footwasher]

I too believe the Kingdom has been here developing since Jesus first preached the gospel of the kingdom. This makes the Pharisee's pre-millennial kingdom a lie.

Well the mainstream churches teach that the Kingdom is in Heaven, so their doctrine is a lie too. If you know the Kingdom is already available, then hurry up and enter it too. Strong men like Caleb have already forced their way in.

[Dave L]

The Kingdom has come amongst men:

Luke 11.20But if I cast out the demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

You need gifts, the finger of God, to bring people out of Egypt/the world system.

Exodus 8:19"This is the finger of God," the magicians said to Pharaoh. But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, just as the LORD had said.

So please strive hard to enter the Kingdom, where you WILL receive these gifts.

I too believe the Kingdom has been here developing since Jesus first preached the gospel of the kingdom. This makes the Pharisee's pre-millennial kingdom a lie.

[footwasher]

You are not in the kingdom if you look for a future millennium. You side with the blind Pharisees and reject Jesus' gospel of the Kingdom.

The Kingdom has come amongst men:

Luke 11.20But if I cast out the demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

You need gifts, the finger of God, to bring people out of Egypt/the world system.

Exodus 8:19"This is the finger of God," the magicians said to Pharaoh. But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, just as the LORD had said.

So please strive hard to enter the Kingdom, where you WILL receive these gifts.

[Dave L]

Don't worry about the people in the story. Take care of your own destiny. The place you want to be in is the Kingdom of God. Try hard to find the Way.

You are not in the kingdom if you look for a future millennium. You side with the blind Pharisees and reject Jesus' gospel of the Kingdom.

[footwasher]

The problem is God blinded the Pharisees and others so they could not understand the scriptures. This would include any translations of them. Unless you understand Jesus' technique, you cannot understand them either.

Don't worry about the people in the story. Take care of your own destiny. The place you want to be in is the Kingdom of God. Try hard to find the Way.

[Dave L]

This is the relevant passage from Page 13 in the article by Professor N T Wright:

Quote
The ‘works’ commended in MMT, then, are designed to mark out God’s true people in the
present time, the time when the final fulfillment of Deuteronomy has begun but is not yet
concluded. They are designed (C30) ‘so that you may rejoice at the end of time, finding these
words of ours to be true’. These extra-biblical commands will thus enable the sect to anticipate
the verdict of the last day, when it will be clearly revealed that those who follow this particular
halakhah are indeed the true, renewed people of God.
(3) This brings us to the key comparison between MMT and Paul. Paul, arguably, held a
version of the same covenantal and eschatological scheme of thought as MMT; but, in his
scheme, the place taken by ‘works of Torah’ in MMT was taken by ‘faith’. Paul, like MMT,
believed (a) in a coming ‘last day’ when all would be revealed, and (b) that the verdict of that
last day could be anticipated in the present when someone displayed the appropriate marks of
covenant membership. For him, though, the appropriate marks were not ‘works’, either of the
biblical Torah or of post-biblical halakhah, but faith: more specifically, faith in the God who
raised Jesus from the dead.
Like the author of MMT (and the Qumran writers in general – and, for that matter, much of
second-Temple Judaism), Paul believed that he and his contemporaries were living, not as
historically isolated individuals attempting to enter into or sustain a relationship with God that
bore no relation to Israel’s long story and the prophecies that shaped it, but as Jews within a
continuing saga of prophesied history. They were part of a story, a drama: the drama of promise
and fulfillment, and more particularly of exile and (at least potential) restoration.

...

There were several different rabbis in Jerusalem, with different teachings. John the Baptist was one rabbi. The Teacher of Righteousness was the rabbi of the Essene sect of Judaism. They each taught different ways of salvation. However the common thing they had was all knew that prophesy had been fulfilled. Israel would rise, then disobey, be exiled and then return to Jerusalem.

Everything had been fulfilled except the restoration of the People of God. At this time, those who would be recognised as justified and sanctified would be those who had fulfilled the requirements of the Law. For the Essenes, it was a certain set of works, like circumcision, Sabbath keeping and food laws. For Rabbi Paul, it was simply faith in Christ.

I repeat, Judaism was not legalistic. Those who followed it were trying to find the formula, the marks of identification, which would guarantee they would be accepted by God. In other words, they had to prove they understood how the Law identified God's People. Jesus said it was by faith in Him:

John 5.39You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me;

Deut 18.15“The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen; to him you shall listen.

The problem is God blinded the Pharisees and others so they could not understand the scriptures. This would include any translations of them. Unless you understand Jesus' technique, you cannot understand them either.

[footwasher]

The Dead Sea Scrolls apply to the Ot, impossible to understand apart from the NT. So we can have a safe view by using Jesus' interpretation of the OT. With or without them as far as spiritual truth is concerned. The problem? God blinded the unbelieving Jews so they could not understand scripture. How do the scrolls improve this curse upon them, and the majority calling themselves Christians who are equally blind following them and rejecting Jesus when he contradicts them?

This is the relevant passage from Page 13 in the article by Professor N T Wright:

Quote
The ‘works’ commended in MMT, then, are designed to mark out God’s true people in the
present time, the time when the final fulfillment of Deuteronomy has begun but is not yet
concluded. They are designed (C30) ‘so that you may rejoice at the end of time, finding these
words of ours to be true’. These extra-biblical commands will thus enable the sect to anticipate
the verdict of the last day, when it will be clearly revealed that those who follow this particular
halakhah are indeed the true, renewed people of God.
(3) This brings us to the key comparison between MMT and Paul. Paul, arguably, held a
version of the same covenantal and eschatological scheme of thought as MMT; but, in his
scheme, the place taken by ‘works of Torah’ in MMT was taken by ‘faith’. Paul, like MMT,
believed (a) in a coming ‘last day’ when all would be revealed, and (b) that the verdict of that
last day could be anticipated in the present when someone displayed the appropriate marks of
covenant membership. For him, though, the appropriate marks were not ‘works’, either of the
biblical Torah or of post-biblical halakhah, but faith: more specifically, faith in the God who
raised Jesus from the dead.
Like the author of MMT (and the Qumran writers in general – and, for that matter, much of
second-Temple Judaism), Paul believed that he and his contemporaries were living, not as
historically isolated individuals attempting to enter into or sustain a relationship with God that
bore no relation to Israel’s long story and the prophecies that shaped it, but as Jews within a
continuing saga of prophesied history. They were part of a story, a drama: the drama of promise
and fulfillment, and more particularly of exile and (at least potential) restoration.

...

There were several different rabbis in Jerusalem, with different teachings. John the Baptist was one rabbi. The Teacher of Righteousness was the rabbi of the Essene sect of Judaism. They each taught different ways of salvation. However the common thing they had was all knew that prophesy had been fulfilled. Israel would rise, then disobey, be exiled and then return to Jerusalem.

Everything had been fulfilled except the restoration of the People of God. At this time, those who would be recognised as justified and sanctified would be those who had fulfilled the requirements of the Law. For the Essenes, it was a certain set of works, like circumcision, Sabbath keeping and food laws. For Rabbi Paul, it was simply faith in Christ.

I repeat, Judaism was not legalistic. Those who followed it were trying to find the formula, the marks of identification, which would guarantee they would be accepted by God. In other words, they had to prove they understood how the Law identified God's People. Jesus said it was by faith in Him:

John 5.39You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me;

Deut 18.15“The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen; to him you shall listen.

[Dave L]

u

The Reformed have a good methodology. Lots of great scholars are Reformed, even Calvinist. But now we have new evidence. Read N T Wright's interpretation of the Dead Sea Scroll evidence. He is Calvinistic too. He teaches TULIP. I ignore those teachings, but his scholarship is good.

https://ntwrightpage.com/2016/05/07/...ht_4qmmt_paul/

Or

4QMMT and Paul: Justification, 'Works,' and Eschatology - NTWrightPage
https://ntwrightpage.com/2016/05/07/...d-eschatology/

The Dead Sea Scrolls apply to the Ot, impossible to understand apart from the NT. So we can have a safe view by using Jesus' interpretation of the OT. With or without them as far as spiritual truth is concerned. The problem? God blinded the unbelieving Jews so they could not understand scripture. How do the scrolls improve this curse upon them, and the majority calling themselves Christians who are equally blind following them and rejecting Jesus when he contradicts them?

[footwasher]

u

The Reformed have a lot to offer. But the Calvinistic Baptists, 1689 London Confession are the closest to the bible I've found.

The Reformed have a good methodology. Lots of great scholars are Reformed, even Calvinist. But now we have new evidence. Read N T Wright's interpretation of the Dead Sea Scroll evidence. He is Calvinistic too. He teaches TULIP. I ignore those teachings, but his scholarship is good.

https://ntwrightpage.com/2016/05/07/...ht_4qmmt_paul/

Or

4QMMT and Paul: Justification, 'Works,' and Eschatology - NTWrightPage
https://ntwrightpage.com/2016/05/07/...d-eschatology/

[Dave L]

There was always a Church that followed God, in spite of hearing the wrong theology. They didn't believe in the Reformed faith, but believed the Bible.

The Reformed have a lot to offer. But the Calvinistic Baptists, 1689 London Confession are the closest to the bible I've found.

[footwasher]

What about your Dead Sea Scroll comments?

There was always a Church that followed God, in spite of hearing the wrong theology. They didn't believe in the Reformed faith, but believed the Bible.

[Dave L]

Who said the gates of Hell have prevailed over the Church? God will always preserve a remnant, and the real Church will always survive. This Church is the one that always bears fruit, unlike the false Church which never even receives rain, is not in the ball park to receive the blessing promised to Abraham. Dave L, come out from the wicked generation, and avoid perishing, facing judgment for not bearing fruit, the fate which is to be burnt like the unfruitful tree. Follow Jesus's teachings, not the teachings of people who are asleep, unfulfilled. Receive the Holy Spirit by hearing and believing. Enter the Kingdom by hearing and believing! Gain treasure that does not rust and perish. Do not live a life of futility, resulting in gains that perish. Come out, come out!

What about your Dead Sea Scroll comments?

[footwasher]

What about Jesus saying the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church? Are you saying the scriptures are worthless?

Who said the gates of Hell have prevailed over the Church? God will always preserve a remnant, and the real Church will always survive. This Church is the one that always bears fruit, unlike the false Church which never even receives rain, is not in the ball park to receive the blessing promised to Abraham. Dave L, come out from the wicked generation, and avoid perishing, facing judgment for not bearing fruit, the fate which is to be burnt like the unfruitful tree. Follow Jesus's teachings, not the teachings of people who are asleep, unfulfilled. Receive the Holy Spirit by hearing and believing. Enter the Kingdom by hearing and believing! Gain treasure that does not rust and perish. Do not live a life of futility, resulting in gains that perish. Come out, come out!