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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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Not the end of the world

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  • Not the end of the world

    Futurist belief in sequential order:

    - A Time of Sorrows (an unspecified amount of time) will occur first.
    (pre-tribbers believe the rapture will occur here)
    - This will be followed by the Tribulation (unspecified amount of time, though some believe this to be 3.5-7 years).
    - Then Jesus returns.
    - A thousand years follow as Jesus reigns in this world.
    - Then a new heaven and new earth is created (the world ends!).

    So, when people claim that futurists said the "world will end" (on this day) after a certain event occurs this is just wrong or merely a strawman projected onto futurists to discredit them (possibly by atheists attempting to discredit Christians in general).

    The end of the world won't occur for literally hundreds of years after these specific events occur.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  • #2
    Originally posted by seanD View Post
    Futurist belief in sequential order:

    - A Time of Sorrows (an unspecified amount of time) will occur first.
    (pre-tribbers believe the rapture will occur here)
    - This will be followed by the Tribulation (unspecified amount of time, though some believe this to be 3.5-7 years).
    - Then Jesus returns.
    - A thousand years follow as Jesus reigns in this world.
    - Then a new heaven and new earth is created (the world ends!).

    So, when people claim that futurists said the "world will end" (on this day) after a certain event occurs this is just wrong or merely a strawman projected onto futurists to discredit them (possibly by atheists attempting to discredit Christians in general).

    The end of the world won't occur for literally hundreds of years after these specific events occur.
    Well, to be fair it would be "the end of the world as we know it".

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
      Well, to be fair it would be "the end of the world as we know it".
      And I feel fine

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        Not necessarily; one can be a futurist and an amillennialist.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #5
          One can believe anything, but I doubt they exist,or they'd be extremely rare. Thousand year reign seems to be synonymous with futurist belief. Actually, the irony is that it seems preterism would likely produce more of a belief in the sudden "end of the world" view than futurism.
          "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

          Comment


          • #6
            Um, I'm leery of any view that presumes a specific chronology.


            I know, I know - I got the book, now I need to read it...



            Thanks again, Dee Dee!

            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              Um, I'm leery of any view that presumes a specific chronology.
              Matthew 24:8 - "The beginning of sorrows" (but the end is not yet).
              Matthew 24:21 - "Great tribulation."
              Matthew 24:29 - "After the tribulation."
              Matthew 24:30 - "Coming of Christ."

              Is it that complex?

              Point being, futurists don't argue that one event will lead to the "end of the world." That's just a misrepresentation of futurism and a strawman.
              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seanD View Post
                Matthew 24:8 - "The beginning of sorrows" (but the end is not yet).
                Matthew 24:21 - "Great tribulation."
                Matthew 24:29 - "After the tribulation."
                Matthew 24:30 - "Coming of Christ."

                Is it that complex?

                Point being, futurists don't argue that one event will lead to the "end of the world." That's just a misrepresentation of futurism and a strawman.
                I wasn't making an argument but an observation. Perhaps it wasn't clear enough - it's the 'x years' part that concerns me.

                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Uh, no...

                  While our planet may have survived September’s “blood moon”, it will be permanently destroyed on Wednesday, 7 October, a Christian organization has warned.

                  The eBible Fellowship, an online affiliation headquartered near Philadelphia, has based its prediction of an October obliteration on a previous claim that the world would end on 21 May 2011. While that claim proved to be false, the organization is confident it has the correct date this time.

                  “According to what the Bible is presenting it does appear that 7 October will be the day that God has spoken of: in which, the world will pass away,” said Chris McCann, the leader and founder of the fellowship, an online gathering of Christians headquartered in Philadelphia.

                  “It’ll be gone forever. Annihilated.”

                  McCann said that, according to his interpretation of the Bible, the world will be obliterated “with fire”.

                  http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ble-fellowship
                  I actually went on their site and looked around a bit because I just don't get it. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear these were atheists trying to make Christians look bad. It just boggles my mind.

                  But this does not represent mainstream futurism. Though futurists disagree on a variety of issues, no futurist outside of the fringe is going claim that the world will end on a certain date. I can see where a Christian would blatantly disregard Matthew 24:36 and predict the return of Christ, but to predict the end of the world falls completely outside the scope of expected events as stated in the OP.

                  What it does do is reaffirm Matthew 24:11 over and over and over again and shows me that, if we are indeed in the end times, Satan would naturally be relentless in his attempts to obfuscate, confuse and discredit this fact. What better way than to incessantly cry wolf over and over and over again leading up to the events of the end times in order to make skeptics even more skeptical and create a chilling effect among Christians about any end time discussion.
                  "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post
                    Matthew 24:8 - "The beginning of sorrows" (but the end is not yet).
                    Matthew 24:21 - "Great tribulation."
                    Matthew 24:29 - "After the tribulation."
                    Matthew 24:30 - "Coming of Christ."

                    Is it that complex?

                    Point being, futurists don't argue that one event will lead to the "end of the world." That's just a misrepresentation of futurism and a strawman.
                    Where does the "Battle of Armageddon" fit into your conceptualization of futuristic Bible prophecy?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      Matthew 24:8 - "The beginning of sorrows" (but the end is not yet).
                      Matthew 24:21 - "Great tribulation."
                      Matthew 24:29 - "After the tribulation."
                      Matthew 24:30 - "Coming of Christ."
                      Rev 16:14-15, 19:19-21 presumably happens during the bolded event.
                      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                      Comment

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