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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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The Antichrist

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Darfius View Post
    According to tradition, part of the means God used to stop Nimrod's rebellion was to send Shem son of Noah to kill him. But whatever the reason, the worship of the dragon went underground at this point and became known as the "mysteries", passed on only to the "initiated" who could be trusted or intimidated into keeping it secret. The mystery religion passed on from the Canaanites to the Egyptians to the Assyrians to the Babylonians to the Greeks to the Romans to the Gnostics to the Masons.
    ## With the exception of part of the last sentence, that sounds suspiciously as though it is based on A. Hislop's "The Two Babylons", which began as a pamphlet, and became a book in 1858. It is a mass of ingenious fiction, intended as (in effect) a "brief for the prosecution" against the CC. Hislop in turn appears to have been influenced by a series of very readable but richly fictional essays by one H. J. Jones in the 1852 & 1853 numbers of "The Quarterly Journal of Prophecy". Jones's 100 or so pages are almost entirely without footnotes, so his statements are impossible to check - Hislop, whatever criticisms can be made of his book, does at least give 1,027 footnotes. (I take the number from the German translation of TTB, which replaces the daggers, obeloi and asterisks of TTB's notes by numbers in sequence.)

    Hislop's account of the "rise and progress" of the "Babylonian Mystery Religion" is dressed up in the garb of tradition, in that ancient authors are quoted or cited or otherwise used for various details of this or that - but the substance of the account, and the inter-relation of the data relied on, is not ancient, but is of Hislop's confecting, with several dollops of help from Jones.

    Hislop's order of BMR-receiving peoples is:

    Nimrod & Semiramis (& Tammuz, who is alleged to be a re-incarnated Nimrod) (c. 2182/1 BC)
    Egyptians
    Greeks
    Attalus III of Pergamum (before 133 BC)
    Romans (45 BC for some aspects of the alleged BMR)
    Church in Rome

    And to a large number of other cultures, without indication of when or how, including (in no particular order):
    Cyprus
    American Indians
    Druids
    Scotland
    Tahiti
    India
    Siam
    Japan
    Tibet
    China
    Anglo-Saxon England
    France
    Etruria

    Those are the ones I can remember off-hand. There are probably others. I don't recall any mention of the Gnostics or Masons in TTB; or of the Canaanites.

    1 Timothy 4.7 seems appropriate: "But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness..." Nimrod is the Big Bad of the Story - Semiramis doubles as Evil Chancellor, & Dragon to Nimrod's Big Bad.
    Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 07-05-2016, 09:36 PM.

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    • #17
      Nice try, papist. The Masons themselves trace their descent from Egypt, and their secrets aren't about how to bake a good pie. I know your first pope was Simon Magus.

      Comment


      • #18
        What The Letters of St. John say about the Anti Christ.
        Originally posted by 1 John 2:21-22
        18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us. 20You, however, have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.21I have not written you because you lack knowledge of the truth, but because you have it, and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son.
        That will do. Answered
        A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
        George Bernard Shaw

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Darfius View Post
          I know your first pope was Simon Magus.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
            What The Letters of St. John say about the Anti Christ.
            That will do. Answered
            Problem is, it's not an answer. Was he affirming or denying a future "antichrist"? It isn't clear. Which character in Revelation is he speaking of? It isn't clear. Was he even speaking in association with anyone described in Rev? It isn't clear.

            That passage can be interpreted as: "Yes, there is a future antichrist coming, but there are also antichrists among us now" (Paul confirms at least the spirit of lawlessness was among them). Or: "what are you guys talking about a future antichrist; they're already here among us now."
            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Darfius View Post
              Nice try, papist. The Masons themselves trace their descent from Egypt, and their secrets aren't about how to bake a good pie. I know your first pope was Simon Magus.
              That doesn't address what appears to be a reliance in your post on what appears to be stuff from Hislop. If you aren't relying on Hislop, you need only say so. As for my religious affiliation, it is immaterial to whether Hislop's account is correct or not. The Masons may claim Egyptian descent - but is the descent your post gives them supported by anything beyond the statement of it; and, if so, what is that support ? I don't think these are unreasonable questions.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
                That doesn't address what appears to be a reliance in your post on what appears to be stuff from Hislop. If you aren't relying on Hislop, you need only say so. As for my religious affiliation, it is immaterial to whether Hislop's account is correct or not. The Masons may claim Egyptian descent - but is the descent your post gives them supported by anything beyond the statement of it; and, if so, what is that support ? I don't think these are unreasonable questions.
                I wouldn't bother. Darfius has completely jumped the shark.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  I wouldn't bother. Darfius has completely jumped the shark.
                  I'm disappointed - I thought you were posting this Finding out what the source is of this idea that Simon Magus was bishop of Rome (and was confused with Simon Peter ?) would be interesting. I'm going take a wild guess and say that the claim of an Egyptian descent for the Masons is based on something like George Higgins' "Anacalypsis" (2 vols., 1836), or Helena Blavatsky's "Isis Unveiled", or something like that. "Anacalypsis" was popular with the Masons. A lot of esoteric, rather wild stuff today seems to be of 19th-century origin.
                  Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 08-13-2016, 02:46 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
                    That doesn't address what appears to be a reliance in your post on what appears to be stuff from Hislop. If you aren't relying on Hislop, you need only say so. As for my religious affiliation, it is immaterial to whether Hislop's account is correct or not. The Masons may claim Egyptian descent - but is the descent your post gives them supported by anything beyond the statement of it; and, if so, what is that support ? I don't think these are unreasonable questions.
                    I am quite sure that "papist" is used as a term of endearment.

                    Also, you seem to think that the validity of a source has some bearing on the validity of the argument.

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                    • #25
                      Darfius has me curious. He says the Antichrist is already here.

                      Who is he, Darfius?

                      Obama? Trump? Putin? Joel Osteen?

                      Justin Beiber? I would believe that one.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                        I am quite sure that "papist" is used as a term of endearment.
                        Only the OP knows his intentions. I see no point in speculating. Tone does not carry well in cyberspace, so misunderstanding of people's intentions is all too easy
                        Also, you seem to think that the validity of a source has some bearing on the validity of the argument.
                        ## Sometimes it can.

                        If a source is known to be generally reliable, that gives one at least a degree of confidence that it can - at least for some purposes, and to some extent - be relied upon. If, however, a source is known to be generally unreliable, info that seems to be based on it, though it may in fact be accurate, is likely to be treated with some reserve at least - and rightly so. This is not unfair, but prudent. Not prejudiced or bigoted - though both of those are dangers. Being aware of them is half the victory over them.

                        If my argument were based on this reasoning: "X is an unreliable person, therefore he can't be believed", your comment would be unanswerable. That is not my argument. The point is that if a book has a reputation for inaccuracy, it is not a good source to base an argument on. Hislop's book bases a lot of its argument on bad etymology - he mistakes "Chaldee", IOW Aramaic, for the language spoken in Mesopotamia. There were two of these, not one: Sumerian, and Akkadian. The two are completely unrelated. Although both Akkadian & Aramaic are Semitic languages, they are no more the same language than French & English are.

                        If you are accusing me of the genetic fallacy, Hislop's book is in part built on that fallacy. There is a lot wrong with Hislop's book - I don't really like discussing it, because its author, who died in about 1865, is in no position to correct any of its faults; I don't think it's fair to criticise an author who cannot answer back.
                        Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 08-23-2016, 10:09 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Darfius View Post

                          Scripture Verse: 2 Corinthians 4:4

                          The god of this age [the devil] has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          The Bible presents the devil as having authority over the earth and being the "god" of this world. And he says "and I can give it [his authority] to anyone I want to." The Bible supports that, too:
                          I read through this again and noticed a Mandela effect in my initial post. The Scripture used to say "god of this world" in all versions and now it says "god of this age" in many. It definitely said "world" in the version I quoted, since that is why I cited the scripture and I even gave commentary saying "god of this world". Check the initial post. It hasn't been edited. The word was changed by whatever is causing the Mandela effect to reflect the change in my post. But notice, only the quoted verse could be changed and not my commentary, because I have always "observed" the verse as world rather than age, meaning "observation"/free will is involved in this phenomenon. It's why people can remember how things used to be even when they are different now.

                          Feel free to do the easy thing and call me crazy, but I now have visual proof to offer you.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Darfius View Post

                            I read through this again and noticed a Mandela effect in my initial post. The Scripture used to say "god of this world" in all versions and now it says "god of this age" in many. It definitely said "world" in the version I quoted, since that is why I cited the scripture and I even gave commentary saying "god of this world". Check the initial post. It hasn't been edited. The word was changed by whatever is causing the Mandela effect to reflect the change in my post. But notice, only the quoted verse could be changed and not my commentary, because I have always "observed" the verse as world rather than age, meaning "observation"/free will is involved in this phenomenon. It's why people can remember how things used to be even when they are different now.

                            Feel free to do the easy thing and call me crazy, but I now have visual proof to offer you.
                            It used to say "edited by Darfius" but now thanks to the Mandela effect that is missing from the original post.



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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                              It used to say "edited by Darfius" but now thanks to the Mandela effect that is missing from the original post.

                              Speaking of Mandela Effect. "They" actually changed the definition of "sexual preference" in the online Merriam dictionary to match the definition of "sexual preference" that that PC authoritarian nutjob Hirono was grilling Barrett about. They literally did this on the fly for that reason. What makes this so Orwellian and scary is that the idea that it's supposed to be offensive was made up by Hirono, because Dems are on record using that term -- "sexual preference" -- including Biden himself and no one cared about it until Barrett used it. So the quick change was purely political.
                              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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                              • #30

                                The reason I put "craft" in quotes is because this is the term given to the knowledge the fallen angels gave mankind and how those initiated into these dark arts/sayings refer subtly to their knowledge. These angels were called "Watchers" and their knowledge witch-craft. The Antichrist will be a master at the "craft" and proficient in the "dark sayings":
                                [verse=Daniel 8:23-25]And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
                                BTW, I checked 50 translations and none of them use "dark sayings" for Daniel 8:23. KJV says dark sentences. Seventeen say intrigue which is the most common. KJV uses dark sayings twice. Psalm 78 and Proverbs 1. Neither has anything to do with witchcraft.

                                Psalm 78 Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
                                2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
                                3 Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.
                                4 We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.
                                5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

                                Ptoverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
                                6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
                                7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

                                666 And The Name

                                http://https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D1M48M4/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1594855398&refinements=p_2 7%3AAlan+Fuller&s=digital-text&sr=1-1&text=Alan+Fuller

                                https://sites.google.com/site/apocalypticwisdom/

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