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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    The kingdom is invisible until two or three meets for worship. And then returns to invisibility. There is no physical millennium.
    Of course your bare, unsupported assertion means jack squat to me in light of actual Scripture:

    Scripture Verse: Revelation 20

    And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

    4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Beheaded, mark, resurrection...these are all physical events. What possible symbolism could there be for beheading? It even says that "the rest" of the dead don't come to life until after the thousand years. This is open and shut for anyone without an agenda to make their "salvation" something attainable by their own private interpretation and no need for actual obedience, loyalty and faith.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Darfius View Post

      Of course your bare, unsupported assertion means jack squat to me in light of actual Scripture:

      Scripture Verse: Revelation 20

      And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

      4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

      © Copyright Original Source



      Beheaded, mark, resurrection...these are all physical events. What possible symbolism could there be for beheading? It even says that "the rest" of the dead don't come to life until after the thousand years. This is open and shut for anyone without an agenda to make their "salvation" something attainable by their own private interpretation and no need for actual obedience, loyalty and faith.
      Lot's of this happened under Nero and the Papacy. But Paul says the letter kills. The Spirit gives life to the scriptures. You will never see the symbols of Revelation come true until you start looking for what they symbolize.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Dave L View Post

        Lot's of this happened under Nero and the Papacy. But Paul says the letter kills. The Spirit gives life to the scriptures. You will never see the symbols of Revelation come true until you start looking for what they symbolize.
        Not sure what you mean by the Papacy, but when did Nero behead anyone, let alone multitudes? Tacitus' description of Nero's persecution of Christians doesn't say one thing about beheading.

        And if everything in Rev is symbolism, how are we to ever know what it truly means when everyone has different interpretations of the symbolism?
        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by seanD View Post

          Not sure what you mean by the Papacy, but when did Nero behead anyone, let alone multitudes? Tacitus' description of Nero's persecution of Christians doesn't say one thing about beheading.

          And if everything in Rev is symbolism, how are we to ever know what it truly means when everyone has different interpretations of the symbolism?
          You do not have a biblical view of the Antichrist. John said there were already several in his day. And he also said Revelation had things that would shortly come to pass. Start with Paul's man of sin. That is Antichrist's profile. If you do that, he is easy to spot. Even now.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Dave L View Post

            You do not have a biblical view of the Antichrist. John said there were already several in his day. And he also said Revelation had things that would shortly come to pass. Start with Paul's man of sin. That is Antichrist's profile. If you do that, he is easy to spot. Even now.
            I didn't say anything about antichrist; you just did. I was just pointing out how you have zero evidence Nero killed Christians that way, in fact, evidence to the contrary, even though he did a slew of awful things to Christians. You'll have to find someone other than Nero unless you just don't care at all about historical evidence. As a matter of fact, I doubt you'll find evidence that any emperor went on a mass beheading spree because that isn't typically how they executed folks. They were much more cruel towards their enemies.

            And you never answered my question: If everything in Rev is symbolism, how are we to ever know what it truly means when everyone has different interpretations of the symbolism?
            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by seanD View Post

              I didn't say anything about antichrist; you just did. I was just pointing out how you have zero evidence Nero killed Christians that way, in fact, evidence to the contrary, even though he did a slew of awful things to Christians. You'll have to find someone other than Nero unless you just don't care at all about historical evidence. As a matter of fact, I doubt you'll find evidence that any emperor went on a mass beheading spree because that isn't typically how they executed folks. They were much more cruel towards their enemies.

              And you never answered my question: If everything in Rev is symbolism, how are we to ever know what it truly means when everyone has different interpretations of the symbolism?
              Nero killed many Christians. The Papacy killed millions according to various resources.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                Nero killed many Christians. The Papacy killed millions according to various resources.
                He never beheaded Christians according to Tacitus. Do you have a source for that, yes or no? Or do you just not care about accuracy or historical fact? The Papacy didn't happen until the later centuries.

                If everything in Rev is symbolism, how are we to ever know what it truly means when everyone has different interpretations of the symbolism?
                "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                Comment


                • #53
                  You're ignoring a lot of questions, Dave. Kinda looks like you have no integrity. But that's impossible, because you have the super decoder ring to private interpretations of Scripture, which surely only a man of integrity would possess. What does the beheading symbolize? Why does John say "the" antichrist is coming instead of, for example, the antichrist "spirit"?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                    You're ignoring a lot of questions, Dave. Kinda looks like you have no integrity. But that's impossible, because you have the super decoder ring to private interpretations of Scripture, which surely only a man of integrity would possess. What does the beheading symbolize? Why does John say "the" antichrist is coming instead of, for example, the antichrist "spirit"?
                    Why not invest some time studying John and try to find out? I have opinions but he's the real deal.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                      Why not invest some time studying John and try to find out? I have opinions but he's the real deal.
                      So you came to a debate forum to advise people to study? Cool story, bro.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post

                        He never beheaded Christians according to Tacitus. Do you have a source for that, yes or no? Or do you just not care about accuracy or historical fact? The Papacy didn't happen until the later centuries.

                        If everything in Rev is symbolism, how are we to ever know what it truly means when everyone has different interpretations of the symbolism?
                        So what? He killed many symbolized by beheading.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Darfius View Post

                          So you came to a debate forum to advise people to study? Cool story, bro.
                          I didn't know it was a debate forum. Why do you want to debate?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                            So what? He killed many symbolized by beheading.
                            That's just goofy. If Rev wanted it to be symbolism, why specifically state beheading? It would just say they were killed? But more power to you.

                            So I guess you just won't answer this question then? If everything in Rev is symbolism, how are we to ever know what it truly means when everyone has different interpretations of the symbolism? I'm not surprised you refuse.
                            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post

                              That's just goofy. If Rev wanted it to be symbolism, why specifically state beheading? It would just say they were killed? But more power to you.

                              So I guess you just won't answer this question then? If everything in Rev is symbolism, how are we to ever know what it truly means when everyone has different interpretations of the symbolism? I'm not surprised you refuse.
                              Did you know why people stumble over Revelation? They expect the symbols to happen instead of looking for what they represent.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                                Did you know why people stumble over Revelation? They expect the symbols to happen instead of looking for what they represent.
                                No answer, duly noted.
                                "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                                Comment

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