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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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System of the Beast makes perfect sense today

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  • #31
    How ironic is this...

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...8#.U4fmnn-u1IA

    Even if you don't believe this is setting the stage of end times, you got to admit that digital cash will eventually overshadow physical currency for reasons given in the article and in the OP. When it happens, it will be the single greatest oppressive system and suppression of freedom ever instituted on civilization.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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    • #32
      Originally posted by seanD View Post
      How ironic is this...

      http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...8#.U4fmnn-u1IA

      Even if you don't believe this is setting the stage of end times, you got to admit that digital cash will eventually overshadow physical currency for reasons given in the article and in the OP. When it happens, it will be the single greatest oppressive system and suppression of freedom ever instituted on civilization.
      I find it to be tremendously troubling.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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      • #33
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        I find it to be tremendously troubling.
        Meh. It'll be hard to achieve integration of even all the existing cashless systems eg Visa payWave, Paypal, Google Wallet, Amazon's system etc.

        Okay, if you consider an isolated nation, it could well be feasible in the long run. But bring in the international nature of many transactions and the inter-national legislation required will be a massive headache.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Paprika View Post
          Meh. It'll be hard to achieve integration of even all the existing cashless systems eg Visa payWave, Paypal, Google Wallet, Amazon's system etc.

          Okay, if you consider an isolated nation, it could well be feasible in the long run. But bring in the international nature of many transactions and the inter-national legislation required will be a massive headache.
          If you’re not a futurist, you still have to admit that this is where we’re eventually heading. However, any estimation of how long it will take is pure speculation. There’s really no telling how long considering technology is ever advancing quicker and quicker (look where we were just 20 years compared to where we are now).

          If you are a futurist, the conclusion from the four horse apocalypse is that this will be fully implemented after a catastrophic breakdown of societal and civil infrastructure, thus will be much easier to implement (it will be easier to get the horrified populace to collectively accept anything -- especially if it is from a highly intelligent source -- that will provide a semblance of normalcy and insure their survival). It will be a different society than it is now; an order out of chaos situation.
          "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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          • #35
            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            If you’re not a futurist, you still have to admit that this is where we’re eventually heading
            "this" is vague. That cashless systems will be more and more popular? Sure. That there will be one and only one global cashless system a la futurism? Very unlikely.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
              "this" is vague. That cashless systems will be more and more popular? Sure. That there will be one and only one global cashless system a la futurism? Very unlikely.
              I take it you're a preterist.
              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by seanD View Post
                I take it you're a preterist.
                I take it as basic that the first half of the Olivet discourse refers to events that would happen within the lifetime of that generation. With regards to the Revelation I have no firm opinion. This aspect of eschatology isn't something that I view as very important.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                  I take it as basic that the first half of the Olivet discourse refers to events that would happen within the lifetime of that generation. With regards to the Revelation I have no firm opinion. This aspect of eschatology isn't something that I view as very important.
                  I take it you're also not very privy to economics, particularly global economics.
                  "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post
                    I take it you're also not very privy to economics, particularly global economics.
                    Oh?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                      Oh?
                      I included collapse of civilization in the futurist camp simply because this is the picture that end prophecy presents. But one doesn't need to be a futurist to see this as a plausible scenario if they understood global economics; that the four major economic empires -- US, EU, Japan, China -- are on the brink of breakdown. The only thing sustaining their economies is massive amounts of money printing along with massive amounts of debt on top of massive amounts of more debt. This is unsustainable and cannot last forever, especially in light of growing population ratios and ever decreasing natural resources.
                      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Interesting article...

                        Perhaps the most remarkable thing about the move toward digital money and mobile payments is that the trend shows its strongest growth in Africa, a continent that has often struggled to keep up with the world in other areas of development.

                        In countries like Kenya and South Africa, pure interactions are happening with currency that weighs nothing at all. Currency is being exchanged on the simplest cell phones using the simplest technology: text messaging, or SMS, for short message service.

                        SMS is the perfect communication system for Africa, where the majority of consumers can’t afford high-dollar devices like the iPhone or an Android-powered device. They use older Nokia phones or the decade-old Samsung E250, a phone that has been dubbed the AK-47 of African telecom because it is cheap and nearly indestructible.

                        Most people living in sub-Saharan Africa are “unbanked,” meaning they don’t have bank accounts or credit cards. But nearly all of them have a phone. And those phones are giving millions of Africans access to a trustworthy, secure money ecosystem.

                        Just as Africa leapfrogged the idea of landline telephones and went straight to digital mobile phones, so, too, is Africa vaulting over the idea of currencies and going straight to digital money.

                        By 2013, about 80 percent of the world’s mobile payment transactions were happening in East Africa.

                        http://www.wired.com/2014/05/how-dig...n-afghanistan/
                        According to them, 80% of mobile transactions take place in Africa. Just another example of how inevitable digital currency is becoming; the fact that one of the most underdeveloped countries in the world has widespread access to this technology.
                        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          After 6 years, Beast system is coming along as expected.

                          As futurists we all knew this was inevitably coming. Even if you're not a futurist, you knew this was eventually coming if you had any wherewithal about current events -- i.e. the Federal Reserve and all other central banks around the world essentially engaging in carte blanche control over their economies by creating trillions in debt, buying government and corporate bonds, allowing the bulk of government spending, etc. -- and how digital technology was gradually shaping our society. It's just sort of breathtaking to watch the evolution in real time and how it actually comes to fruition. Block chain seems to be advancing it further along, and now global central banks are adopting this technology on a grander scale. Right now, it seems to be in the testing phase, which is no surprise since such a global endeavor would be pretty massive...

                          With the global economy racing to embrace digital payments, central banks also are looking to the future and investigating how to support innovation while maintaining monetary policy and financial stability as they issue and distribute currency. In fact, 80 percent of central banks surveyed are engaging in some form of Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) work, and about 40 percent of central banks have progressed from conceptual research to experimenting with concept and design, according to a recent survey by the Bank for International Settlements.

                          Today, Mastercard announced a proprietary virtual testing environment for central banks to evaluate CBDC use cases. The platform enables the simulation of issuance, distribution and exchange of CBDCs between banks, financial service providers and consumers. Central banks, commercial banks, and tech and advisory firms are invited to partner with Mastercard to assess CBDC tech designs, validate use cases and evaluate interoperability with existing payment rails available for consumers and businesses today.

                          Mastercard is a leader in operating multiple payment rails and convening partners to ensure a level playing field for everyone – from banks to businesses to mobile network operators – in order to bring the most people possible into the digital economy. Mastercard wants to harness its expertise to enable the practical, safe and secure development of digital currencies.

                          “Central banks have accelerated their exploration of digital currencies with a variety of objectives, from fostering financial inclusion to modernizing the payments ecosystem," said Raj Dhamodharan, Executive Vice President, Digital Asset and Blockchain Products and Partnerships, Mastercard. “Mastercard is driving innovation with the public sector, banks, fintechs, and advisory firms in the exploration of CBDCs, working with partners that are aligned to our core values and principles. This new platform supports central banks as they make decisions now and in the future about the path forward for local and regional economies,” Dhamodharan added.

                          Obviously they were already designing the software and hardware for this monumental project beforehand (something so enormous couldn't have been just designed on the fly), and global crisis was the convenient catalyst to aggressively push it forward. The pandemic panic of 2020 has accelerated the process. Here's another detailed overview that gives reference to this...

                          Given the persistence of the COVID-19 crisis and the potential for a fall resurgence in cases, concomitant curbs in economic activity (i.e., further lockdowns) could unleash a deflationary shock to the economy. Indeed, a demand shock puts significant downward pressure on inflation as producers lose pricing power when consumers stop purchasing because they’ve lost their jobs or cannot go out and spend money in any case. The past several decades provided ample evidence of the negative impact of falling economic activity on prices.

                          Yet the policy implications are what we must keep an eye on as new digital policy tools become available to central bankers. Central banks
                          and other financial institutions appear to be well along in the process of developing CBDCs. In the event of a new demand and disinflation shock, it is likely central banks will use them.
                          "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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