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This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

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Preterism and the binding of Satan

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  • #16
    Originally posted by AlphaBravo View Post
    Yes they should. But to say that it is metaphorical is impotent and meaningless. The metaphorical interpretation of the coming of Jesus at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 is exactly the point where the preterist approach abandon's its strongest case. Matthew 24 cannot be parsed into a literal and metaphorical component as preterists do, just as it cannot be parsed into a past and future component as the premillenialists do. Both do injury to the plain sense of the text.

    It is the natural sense and explicit statements in Mt 24 and Lk 21 that drove me off the premillenial wagon and led me to a preterist approach. Preterism does some beautiful work in tying Mt 24 to the tribulation leading up to AD 70 and the destruction of Jerusalem. Then somewhere around Matthew 24:29, the formal preterist approach quails and abandons the strongest line for a metaphorical/figurative interpretation.
    Yet at Matthew 24:29, events happen that, if literal, would be extremely likely to have been picked up by the historical record and/or later Christian writings.
    I think one has to ask themselves this question: What would we know about the fullfillment of messianic prophecies if the inspired accounts of the gospels and the epistles did not survive to this day? Would we doubt the virgin birth? Would we know about the angels who appeared in heaven at the birth of Jesus? The slaughter of the innocent by Herod? The feeding of 5000 with a basket of fishes and loaves? That Jesus emptied the land of Judea, Samaria, and Galilee of the sick, lame, blind, and possessed, even raising the dead? The resurrection of Jesus? The opening of the heavens to receive him as he floated up into the sky? The resurrection of many, perhaps hundreds when Jesus was raised? How is secular and even church history nearly silent of the wonders which Jesus performed which the world cannot contain the books if they were all written down?
    Because these things happened in the backwaters of Palestine, and were generally of little historical import, they would not likely have been recorded elsewhere.
    We do not have an inspired account of the tribulation and destruction of Jerusalem. Period. There may be much that occurred that we do not know about, and yes even the resurrection of many.
    Unlike the events of the gospels, the destruction of Jerusalem was a significant historical event involving hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people - which is why we have historical accounts of the matter.
    Another matter that must be recognized is that modern expositors have neglected or disparaged the detailed historical accounts that survive. Josephus, an historian that was ignorant or perhaps indifferent to Christian prophecies, nevertheless records many interesting, even incredible events which align closely with the Christian apocalyptic writings. Are you aware that Josephus records the accounts of eyewitnesses who reported the opening of the sky above the cities of Judaea? That in the sky chariots, soldiers with glittering armor, flashes of lights and voices were seen and heard rushing back and forth across the entire land? Tacitus (and Eusebius) reports the same including flashes of lighting, declarations of a superhuman voice from heaven, and sounds of rushing winds as the gods (sic) departed the temple.
    Would not the resurrection of many have been of similar import as these visions? Would not the apostolic fathers have made mention of them? Ignatius of Antioch certainly wrote within living memory of the event, and the topic would have been close to his mind as he went to his martyrdom.
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    • #17
      Go back and read the passage again. Satan was only bound in one area of his activity. He was and is prohibited from amassing all of the nations against the Christians. This will change in the very last days when he will be released. Satan will be loosed to attack all of the Christian world at once. How could he do this? Perhaps something like a global non proselytizing law. I don't know. This will be God's final effort to divide all of humanity on earth into one of two camps. There will no longer be any grey area. When he does attack all of Christendom the Jesus will come again and put an end to all things.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Cooter View Post
        Go back and read the passage again. Satan was only bound in one area of his activity.
        No. It also says that while bound in the pit he cannot deceive the nations.

        I think it is grossly presumptuous to propose that Satan is somehow incompletely imprisoned during this time period. Just because the text focuses one aspect of Satan's restraint does not imply that he could do whatever else he pleased, or indeed anything else at all.

        In fact, if you list all the things the bible describes Satan as having the power and authority to do, his imprisonment suggests the suspension of them all. He is bound with a chain, by an angel from heaven, and cast into a bottomless pit designed by God to contain him for 1000 years.

        1. He cannot deceive the nations but he can still deceive individuals?
        2. He cannot gather the nations to war but he can still walk about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour?
        3. He is chained in a sealed bottomless pit but he can still appear to men transformed as an angel of light?

        Why even take this position without explicit support from the text? It begs too many questions.
        Last edited by AlphaBravo; 03-01-2015, 12:14 AM. Reason: posted at 649 views

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