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This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

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Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

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The Tower of Babel

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  • The Tower of Babel

    An understanding of the circumstances surrounding the Tower of Babel is a good aid to a true understanding of Biblical eschatology.

    Who built the Tower of Babel? Why? Why was God concerned enough to put a halt to its construction? What action did He take? Why? Was the solution meant to be permanent? Is another such Tower possible now?

    Preterism cannot begin to answer these questions and is dumb.

    P.S. Nimrod was an obvious type of the Antichrist, who wasn't Nero, dumbdumbs.

    P.S.S. Preterism sucks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Darfius View Post
    An understanding of the circumstances surrounding the Tower of Babel is a good aid to a true understanding of Biblical eschatology.

    Who built the Tower of Babel? Why? Why was God concerned enough to put a halt to its construction? What action did He take? Why? Was the solution meant to be permanent? Is another such Tower possible now?

    Preterism cannot begin to answer these questions and is dumb.

    P.S. Nimrod was an obvious type of the Antichrist, who wasn't Nero, dumbdumbs.

    P.S.S. Preterism sucks.
    It's always such a blessing when an OP encourages honest discussion with such civility.

    And it's P.P.S, not P.S.S. (post post script)
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    • #3
      I would venture and guess that most people who identify with preterism don't believe the story of Babel is actual history. In fact, I would bet that the majority of people who subscribe to preterism also subscribe to theistic evolution (I said majority, not all). But that's just a guess.
      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        It's always such a blessing when an OP encourages honest discussion with such civility.

        And it's P.P.S, not P.S.S. (post post script)
        The P.S.S. stands for Preterism So Sucks

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        • #5
          Originally posted by seanD View Post
          I would venture and guess that most people who identify with preterism don't believe the story of Babel is actual history. In fact, I would bet that the majority of people who subscribe to preterism also subscribe to theistic evolution (I said majority, not all). But that's just a guess.
          That's who we're dealing with, seany boy. "Christians" who don't believe the Bible.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Darfius View Post
            That's who we're dealing with, seany boy. "Christians" who don't believe the Bible.
            Another one of THOSE threads. Belongs in the Looney Bin.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Another one of THOSE threads. Belongs in the Looney Bin.
              I asked legitimate questions hoping for legitimate answers. I will try to indulge less in voicing my revulsion for preterism so the point is not lost.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                I asked legitimate questions hoping for legitimate answers.
                I don't think even YOU believe that.

                I will try to indulge less in voicing my revulsion for preterism so the point is not lost.
                That might help.
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                  An understanding of the circumstances surrounding the Tower of Babel is a good aid to a true understanding of Biblical eschatology.
                  Not at all, actually. Unless you'd care to explain this seemingly non-existent link, you might as well try to argue that the glass of juice that I just drank, or my former neighbor's dog, or a wildflower in Mongolia, are good aids to a true understanding of Biblical eschatology. There is no apparent connection at all.

                  Who built the Tower of Babel?
                  Human beings.

                  Why?
                  Their hearts were rebellious--God had previously told them to fill the Earth (aka spread across it), so instead of following that command, they stayed in one place, and as a further sign of rebellion, they decided to make a name for themselves by building a tower to the heavens as a demonstration of power and authority that they didn't have.

                  Why was God concerned enough to put a halt to its construction?
                  Because it's not a good thing when you have an entire movement of people united against you.

                  What action did He take?
                  God confused their language to shatter the unity that they previously had.

                  Why?
                  Because movements are much weaker when they're disjointed and scattered.

                  Was the solution meant to be permanent?
                  Probably not literally, since, as real life has already proven, people would eventually come to understand different languages and be able to translate words and communicate across them. But the point of the story, expressed through humor, seems to be that mankind is so small compared to God that the tower that they thought would reach to the heavens actually required God to come down in order to see it, and that all God needed to stop their unified rebellion was to confuse their language. So the deeper meaning could be said to permanently apply.

                  Is another such Tower possible now?
                  This is an odd question, since it should be manifestly clear to everyone who's bright enough to not be a futurist () that no tower can ever literally reach to the heavens. The tower was never possible, and so it makes no sense to ask if another such tower would be possible. But there can certainly still be mass unified rebellions against God/moral principles.

                  Preterism cannot begin to answer these questions and is dumb.
                  Can't be any dumber than your completely substance-free post was. I answered all those questions exactly the way I would've answered them when I was a preterist, and exactly the same way I would've answered them when I was a futurist. As I said, there's no apparent connection between the Babel story and eschatology at all, so unless or until you do, I'll just have to assume this bizarre obsession you have with preterism (in which you attribute human qualities to it and whatnot) is part of some underlying psychological problem that probably requires therapy.

                  P.S. Nimrod was an obvious type of the Antichrist, who wasn't Nero, dumbdumbs.
                  You're drawing an awful lot of inferences from a character who's mentioned in only one or two chapters of the Bible, but this doesn't have any connection to preterism or Christianity. For one thing, there was no Christ yet at that time (the historical events that led God to promise to send a Messiah hadn't occurred yet--heck, ancient Israel didn't even exist yet) so there couldn't have been anyone who was anti-Christ. Even if you re-word this to mean that Nimrod represented the future function of an antichrist in the sense of interpreting "Christ" as "anointed" and thereby being anti-anyone who is anointed, it's still irrelevant. Preterism involves a belief that the historical emperor Nero specifically represented a type of antichrist; that someone long before that may have been a similar type of person has nothing to do with it. You haven't shown any indication that you even understand what preterism entails.

                  P.S.S. Preterism sucks.
                  I would be much more inclined to take this seriously if your OP wasn't so insubstantial and incoherent.
                  Last edited by fm93; 12-24-2014, 10:20 PM.
                  Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                  I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post
                    I would venture and guess that most people who identify with preterism don't believe the story of Babel is actual history. In fact, I would bet that the majority of people who subscribe to preterism also subscribe to theistic evolution (I said majority, not all). But that's just a guess.
                    I tend to disagree with your bet. I have run across many folks who believe in preterism who not only aren't TEs but are in fact YECs.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                      An understanding of the circumstances surrounding the Tower of Babel is a good aid to a true understanding of Biblical eschatology.

                      Who built the Tower of Babel? Why? Why was God concerned enough to put a halt to its construction? What action did He take? Why? Was the solution meant to be permanent? Is another such Tower possible now?

                      Preterism cannot begin to answer these questions and is dumb.

                      P.S. Nimrod was an obvious type of the Antichrist, who wasn't Nero, dumbdumbs.

                      P.S.S. Preterism sucks.
                      What is so obvious about Nimrod's connection to the Antichrist? I don't see anything in the text about it.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                      • #12
                        Wasn't Nimrod a great hunter?
                        *scurries to look him up*
                        Well... It seems there is a extra-Biblical tradition notion that he was some sort of tyrant who led the building of the Tower of Babel and was enemies with Abraham.
                        Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

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                        • #13
                          I think the tower of Babel, where people tried to build a stairway to heaven, represents works salvation. And I doubt that the "antichrist" is a single man.

                          Also, "Preterism" is a somewhat vague term. It is undeniable that many prophecies in the Bible have already been fulfilled. The only question is which ones.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
                            Wasn't Nimrod a great hunter?
                            *scurries to look him up*
                            Well... It seems there is a extra-Biblical tradition notion that he was some sort of tyrant who led the building of the Tower of Babel and was enemies with Abraham.
                            Makes sense. So if you have to look up extra-biblical tradition, I think it's fair to say it's probably not 'obvious'.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                              I think the tower of Babel, where people tried to build a stairway to heaven, represents works salvation. And I doubt that the "antichrist" is a single man.

                              Also, "Preterism" is a somewhat vague term. It is undeniable that many prophecies in the Bible have already been fulfilled. The only question is which ones.
                              True. I sometimes subscribe to the book of Daniel as being fulfilled (though I'm still not 100% sure) until we reach the ending of chapter 11-12, whereas other futurists believe the entirety of Daniel is future. But there are distinct preterist beliefs that futurists are referring to. I think when futurists use the term preterist, they're basically referring to Nero is the beast of Rev belief, then they work backwards from that -- the same belief is typically also associated with the belief that "coming in the clouds" described in the OD doesn't mean the parousia but the coming destruction of Jerusalem, etc., and all things related to those beliefs.
                              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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