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This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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A path to preterism [orthodox].

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  • A path to preterism [orthodox].

    What is the first thing a Christian needs to understand toward seeing [orthodox] preterism is the truth ?
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  • #2
    Read material from that viewpoint with an open mind? I would not be so bold as to say it is the truth, but it makes more sense to me than competing views. I had already ditched pre-trib futurism after reading a work dedicated to defending it before discovering preterism, so I didn't have a firm commitment to any particular view when I did.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      Read material from that viewpoint with an open mind? I would not be so bold as to say it is the truth, but it makes more sense to me than competing views. I had already ditched pre-trib futurism after reading a work dedicated to defending it before discovering preterism, so I didn't have a firm commitment to any particular view when I did.
      Well if it is not the truth, why believe it? Now I'm a premillennium post trib futurist. My understanding of perterism is not good enough to defend it. Until I have that type of understanding, how am I suppose to be able refute it or for that matter change my mind on the topic.
      . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't get the question. No special thing but trying to let Scripture interpret Scripture and understand the weight of the time texts. Though now, I would hold it as truth even without the time texts but that is the first thing I had to come to grips with.
        The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

        sigpic

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        • #5
          I think one has to keep an open mind regarding there are other possibilities. And do your research. The idea of pre-trib or secret rapture/dispensationalism came into play as a recent development in the mid-late 1800's and has been evolving ever since
          A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
          George Bernard Shaw

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
            I don't get the question. No special thing but trying to let Scripture interpret Scripture and understand the weight of the time texts. Though now, I would hold it as truth even without the time texts but that is the first thing I had to come to grips with.
            Well yes. But there are nevertheless steps of thought, by which one comes to understand the holy scriptures in that way. I hold to a pre-millennial view point. Where the preterist view point is amillennial. Then there is the whole set of issues of Matthew 24. It has to be done and understood step by step. Points of disagreement noted, and reason for the differences cited side by side. The truth of course will win. One has to understand a view correctly to either refute it or for that matter come to believe it. Wrong reasons need to be exposed, over against the correct interpretations. And how to make the correct interpretations may need to be explained, step by step. To one persons it is clear, to another it makes no sense. The latter reasons need to be understood to correct it.
            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think I went on to explain though
              The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                I think one has to keep an open mind regarding there are other possibilities. And do your research. The idea of pre-trib or secret rapture/dispensationalism came into play as a recent development in the mid-late 1800's and has been evolving ever since
                I have long rejected the pre-trib rapture. Over 44 years now.
                . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
                  I think I went on to explain though
                  Yes, Matthew 24. Things I had understood, was dismissed. Which does not help correct error, if an understanding is in error. Merely dismissing only convinces that the wrong view is right. If that is the case.

                  I know of former professing Christians leaving the faith, for some of the very same arguments which preterist defined as true. And the preterist view point is in defense of the holy scripture, in that case. I see a reason to hold the preterist view point as opposed to denying the faith.

                  I had explained the futurist understanding, and you did not take it seriously. But I take it seriously. "this generation" being understood, to be that "generation" which sees the literal post trib signs in the Sun, Moon, and "stars," meteroric showers in the sky.

                  You understand those events as metaphor. I'm fine with that. But the OT symbology really needs to be step through. I couldn't explain it. I need to connect the dots so to speak.
                  . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Has anyone read Kim Riddlebarger where he explains his preference for Ammillenialism over both forms of Preterism?
                    A case for Ammillenialism (Understanding the End Times)
                    Last edited by Ged; 01-24-2014, 08:10 PM.
                    "Your name and renown
                    is the desire of our hearts."
                    (Isaiah 26:8)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have written a commentary on it you know.
                      The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ged View Post
                        Has anyone read Kim Riddlebarger where he explains his preference for Ammillenialism over both forms of Preterism?
                        A case for Ammillenialism (Understanding the End Times)
                        I have not read it.

                        But here is an overview of that book: http://theologicalstudies.org/files/...ger%5B1%5D.pdf

                        And the book can be ordered here:
                        http://www.amazon.com/Case-Amillenni...3580245&sr=1-4

                        And more about the book here:
                        http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.c...llennialism-e/
                        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
                          I have written a commentary on it you know.
                          I will have to read it again. Do you have the HTML to upload here as an attachment?
                          . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                            Well if it is not the truth, why believe it?
                            As far as I can tell, it is the truth. However, I don't trust my ability to impeccably discern the truth. I remain open to the possible validity of other interpretations. People no less devout, and far more learned, than I read the same material and come to very different conclusions.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              I will have to read it again. Do you have the HTML to upload here as an attachment?
                              A version of it is here:

                              http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrenend.html

                              I say a version, because it was written very informally and there are grammar errors and some page citations are wrong for the source material which I am discovering as I am editing it for publication. Those errors obviously will be fixed in publication, but the argument remains the same… most changes are stylistic with some source corrections. Once I publish the final version that free version will be pulled down.

                              I have a podcast as well going through this material at

                              http://www.preteristpodcast.com. Episode two I think might be the answer to the question you are looking for…. actually episodes 1 and 2.
                              The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

                              sigpic

                              Comment

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