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According to preterism there is no devil [in the world today].

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  • According to preterism there is no devil [in the world today].

    According to preterism there is no devil [in the world today].
    Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
    <snip>
    4) As a preterist, I'd say he's no longer active in the world but will be again one day
    <snip>
    Goes to show the error of preterism.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  • #2
    I don't know if I've seen it done but I suppose it would be possible to hold to preterism while maintaining that the view of the devil's binding is an example of taking the symbols in Revelation too literally.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      According to preterism there is no devil [in the world today].

      Goes to show the error of preterism.
      When the bit you put in parentheses substantially alters the meaning of the sentence, it probably shouldn't be offset by them.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #4
        One problem futurists have is that a current binding should seem to result in no evil on earth.

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        • #5
          Wonder why some people think all evil is a result of demons and Satan? We humans can be pretty nasty on our own.
          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
            One problem futurists have is that a current binding should seem to result in no evil on earth.
            Why, pray tell? I'd like to see your (or any futurist's, for that matter) reasoning for that assertion.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              According to preterism there is no devil [in the world today].

              Goes to show the error of preterism.
              It's not a position that can't hold water. Even the writers of the Bible believed that the angels who sinned were cast into Hell and are chained up till Judgement (2 Peter 2:4).

              Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
              One problem futurists have is that a current binding should seem to result in no evil on earth.
              Do these Futurists honestly believe that humanity would be paragons of virtue if demons weren't involved on a regular basis?
              Mercenary Maxim 37: There is No 'Overkill.' There is merely 'Open Fire,' and 'I need to Reload.'

              Chaotic Void's Recommended Advice for Trump's Opposition to Punt him from the Oval Office: Git Gud

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              • #8
                Also, would the binding of the devil necessarily mean that all individual demons are bound? I don't think it would necessarily have to; this is very speculative territory and we can't be all that dogmatic.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                  Wonder why some people think all evil is a result of demons and Satan? We humans can be pretty nasty on our own.
                  Originally posted by Chaotic Void View Post
                  Do these Futurists honestly believe that humanity would be paragons of virtue if demons weren't involved on a regular basis?
                  Probably because the first evil of eating from the Tree of Knowledge was initiated by Satan. Some Jews believe as an external force the Serpent is the yetzer hara or evil inclination entered into and became bound to Adam, who previously only had yetzer hatov/good inclinations. Once removed, man would be wholly good again. (Getting to Know the Yetzer Hara)

                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  Why, pray tell? I'd like to see your (or any futurist's, for that matter) reasoning for that assertion.
                  I think because we see the end of all evil and deception to sin about when Satan goes into the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20, apparently along with his angels (demons) Matthew 25:41.

                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  Also, would the binding of the devil necessarily mean that all individual demons are bound? I don't think it would necessarily have to; this is very speculative territory and we can't be all that dogmatic.
                  True, Revelation doesn't explicitly state Satan's angels are also bound, although Luke 8 has demons asking Jesus to send them to swine rather than the Abyss which implies that demons may also be sent there, see also Jude. Since they follow him to the Lake of Fire one might reason that they are also bound with him in the Abyss, but it is admittedly just speculation.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig
                    Why, pray tell? I'd like to see your (or any futurist's, for that matter) reasoning for that assertion.
                    I think because we see the end of all evil and deception to sin about when Satan goes into the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20, apparently along with his angels (demons) Matthew 25:41.
                    You need to bone up a bit on preterist beliefs. We believe that satan is bound at the moment (Rev 20:1-3), not cast into the Lake of Fire; that comes later for us as well.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      You need to bone up a bit on preterist beliefs. We believe that satan is bound at the moment (Rev 20:1-3), not cast into the Lake of Fire; that comes later for us as well.
                      Yes I know, I didn't imply that. To clarify, because some of us futurists see the end of all evil and deception to sin when Satan goes into the Lake of Fire, we also expect to see it when Satan is bound in the Abyss.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
                        Yes I know, I didn't imply that. To clarify, because some of us futurists see the end of all evil and deception to sin when Satan goes into the Lake of Fire, we also expect to see it when Satan is bound in the Abyss.
                        Why?
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
                          Probably because the first evil of eating from the Tree of Knowledge was initiated by Satan. Some Jews believe as an external force the Serpent is the yetzer hara or evil inclination entered into and became bound to Adam, who previously only had yetzer hatov/good inclinations. Once removed, man would be wholly good again. (Getting to Know the Yetzer Hara).
                          Only problem is, Satan isn't altogether removed from the picture until the Final Judgement... which any Orthodox Preterist worth their salt will say hasn't happened yet
                          Mercenary Maxim 37: There is No 'Overkill.' There is merely 'Open Fire,' and 'I need to Reload.'

                          Chaotic Void's Recommended Advice for Trump's Opposition to Punt him from the Oval Office: Git Gud

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            Why?
                            On special deception of following the Beast, many of us feel it is still alive and some have never stopped being deceived by it. On broader deception of deceiving people to sin in general, that has never ended either. So to us there is no evidence Satan is already bound that he should deceive the nations no more.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chaotic Void View Post
                              Only problem is, Satan isn't altogether removed from the picture until the Final Judgement... which any Orthodox Preterist worth their salt will say hasn't happened yet
                              As I just told OBP, if he is bound he should be deceiving the nations no more -- who is not being deceived of what if Satan is bound now?

                              Edit to add, I'm aware of the following idea/rebuttal to my question that "not deceiving the nations" equates to spread of Christianity among Gentiles. While some futurists may contend that although this started in the 1st century, it is not entirely completed until everyone believes in Jesus and rejects the Beast, which will be "fullness of Gentiles" and end of "blindness" and turning away from ungodliness among disbelieving Jews, from Romans 11. Which we don't see happening yet.

                              Now, in the preterist view, a new "war" began, and is still going -- this time with the "Word of God" as the weapon, subverting the nations with its message of salvation. "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Heb. 4:12) Literalists see a final battle of military nature. Preterists see a war of the heart, and I think they are right to do so. -Dating and Interpreting Revelation: A Preterist Perspective
                              Last edited by JohnnyP; 01-23-2014, 02:31 PM.

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