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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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"...and they shall be given..." and a Pre-Wrath Rapture

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  • #1

    "...and they shall be given..." and a Pre-Wrath Rapture

    Dan 7:25 He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
    Tags: post-trib, pre-wrath, rapture
  • #2
    It would be inconsistent for God to suddenly punish the righteous along with the unrighteous. Always God has made sure to deliver the righteous away from his wrath. God's wrath is appointed to those who don't believe. (John 3:36)

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    • #3
      Yes, I agree. I'm not sure what in the above might lead you to think I'm advocating wrath on believers? Can you elaborate?

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      • #4
        tharkun

        I hold to a post trib rapture view. There is only one rapture. The tribulation is the persecution of the saints. The wrath of God is poured out after God has removed all His saints from the earth.


        The pre trib view is a pre wrath view. Holding that the tribulation period is the wrath of God. The whole basis of a pre trib rapture is in that belief!

        I'm not following your questions. Can you phrase your question in one sentence? Or is it really more than one question?

        . . . How are we to reconcile a second-half rapture at an unknown time with a known 3.5 year requirement?
        . . . . How can it extend the entire length of time as given by Daniel and yet be cut-short, according to Christ?
        So is there a resolution to the issue for pre-wrath? Is there a way to accept both Daniel’s and Christ’s revelations about this time span at face value, with a plain-sense meaning (one of the main planks of the pre-wrath platform)? . . .
        So what is this critical assumption? . . .
        . . . What will the AC do? He “shall wear out the saints of the Most High”. How long will he do this? . . .
        “[T]hey shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.” This seems completely straightforward; what other interpretation is there? Daniel refers to people being persecuted; ‘they’ obviously is a pronoun used of people, right? Perhaps not. . . .
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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