Digging in the archives here...
I hope I will be pardoned for not reading every page of this thread before I post something. I'd just like to address the original challenge by Darfius in the OP...about the four "angels" bound at the Euphrates, and the "third of men" who died in this particular "second woe" judgment (which was the same as the sixth angel's trumpet judgment).
In the first place, let me say that I agree with Darfius' first comments about the "sons of God" who "left their first estate" to marry human women and thus produce an unclean, hybrid angel / human progeny in the days before Noah's flood. But, setting that whole discussion aside, the particular "angels" in Revelation 9:14-15 were NOT celestial creatures. The word for "angels" in Greek simply means "messenger" - whether human or divine messengers. It just depends on the scripture context as to which one is intended. And in this Revelation 9 context, these were HUMAN messengers that were first "bound at the Euphrates", and then "loosed" at a very specific hour, day, month, and year to slay the third part of men.
The entire account of this sixth trumpet judgment (the second woe) is prophesied in great detail, starting in Revelation 9:13 and finishing up finally in Revelation 11:14. It is a fascinating story about a particular period that Josephus (without realizing the connection) already covered in his Wars accounts (Wars 4.4-5). Many specific numbers Josephus mentioned are an exact match with the Revelation sixth-trumpet prophecy, which had predicted the whole story beforehand. This story involved the Idumean troops which were tricked into invading Jerusalem a year or so after the Jewish war with the Romans had begun in AD 66.
At that time, there were THREE factions then present in Jerusalem that were contending with one another for supremacy. Put a red flag beside these 3 numbers. #1, the moderate priesthood faction led by Ananas, son of Annas, a former high priest who wanted to retain stability to preserve a functioning temple system. #2, Eleazar and his radical Zealot followers, and #3, the conniving rebel leader John of Gischala, who played both of the other sides against each other in order to advance his own position. Hoping to get rid of his rival Ananas, John instigated the whole Idumean invasion when he caused a rumor to be sent to the Idumeans that Ananas was planning to surrender the city to the Romans. Believing this lie, the war-mongering Idumeans immediately got together an army of *20,000 horsemen* - "TWO myriads of myriads" as the Greek has it in Rev. 9:16 (NOT the mistaken 200 MILLION amount that is so frequently mistranslated, since one "myriad" is only ten thousand).
These 20,000 Idumean horsemen were led by no less and no more than FOUR commanders (Josephus lists these four by name). These were the "four angels" or "four messengers" of Rev. 9:14-15. When these 20,000 Idumean horsemen and their four commanders arrived at Jerusalem's main gates, they found that Ananus the former high priest had barred the gates against admitting them. In other words, they were "bound" at the entrance of the city. Just how does the River Euphrates come into this picture? Because Jerusalem, "that great city" in Revelation, was symbolically called "Babylon the Great", and ancient Babylon's entrance had its barred gates submerged in the middle of the River Euphrates which flowed into the city, virtually dividing it in two on either side. To be "bound at the Euphrates" meant that symbolically, the four Idumean commanders were denied entrance at the main gates of "Babylon the Great" (Jerusalem).
This restriction enraged the Idumeans, who were not appeased even when Joshua (another moderate, former high priest) pleaded with them from over the wall to return to reason, telling the Idumeans that they had been duped into believing a lie. That night a "prodigious storm" broke out at Jerusalem, with "the bellowings of an earthquake" Josephus said (which was the "great earthquake" at Jerusalem that Revelation 11:13 predicted). Under cover of the noise generated by the storm, the Zealot faction opposed to the moderate high priest Ananas' party managed to saw open the bars of Jerusalem's gates and "loosed" the four commanders and the Idumean army of 20,000 through those gates into the city, to attack Ananus and those under his command. This was very similar to the one-night takedown of ancient Babylon by Cyrus, whose army broke into ancient Babylon that night of Belshazzar's feast by going under the River Euphrates' barred gates. Cyrus had diverted the flow of the Euphratese into other channels, and thus lowered the water level enough so that his army could go underneath the submerged Euphrates gates, thus taking down the empire of the Chaldeans in a single night.
By the next morning, Josephus wrote that between the earthquake and the Idumean and Zealot attack, there were 8,000 men that were dead, including the murder of both former high priests, Ananus and Joshua (the "two witnesses"). This 8,000 number seems to be on target with Rev. 11:13, which says "there were slain of men 7,000" in that same hour as the storm. This number of casualties in the sixth trumpet judgment is the equivalent of "the third part of men" who were slain by the two myriads of horsemen in Rev. 9:15 This was NOT a third part of men in the entire globe, because this prophecy was describing an event that would take place in Jerusalem alone - "where Christ was crucified" (Rev. 11:8).
With the death of the two former high priests, that entire moderate THIRD faction of Ananas' men in the city was destroyed. Those two high priests who had labored so hard to preserve the status quo in Jerusalem against the rebellious Zealots had their dead bodies stripped naked and left unburied in the streets of Jerusalem by their enemies (as Rev. 11:9 predicted). Their enemies stood on the dead bodies of these two "by way of jest", Josephus said, and scolded their carcases for being the cause of the attack on the city. Revelation 11:10 said that those dwelling on the earth (tes ges - the land of Israel) would rejoice at the death of the two witnesses who had tormented them. This the Zealots did, once the moderate high priesthood party had been eliminated. After that, the inhabitants of Jerusalem were left defenseless against the unrestrained hands of the other two warring factions, who preyed on them equally from then on.
A bit of a long story, but with a mixture of BOTH literal and symbolic included. And anyone who is fearfully anticipating this event in our future needs to relax. The angel's sixth trumpet judgment has been fulfilled to the letter looooong ago.
I hope I will be pardoned for not reading every page of this thread before I post something. I'd just like to address the original challenge by Darfius in the OP...about the four "angels" bound at the Euphrates, and the "third of men" who died in this particular "second woe" judgment (which was the same as the sixth angel's trumpet judgment).
In the first place, let me say that I agree with Darfius' first comments about the "sons of God" who "left their first estate" to marry human women and thus produce an unclean, hybrid angel / human progeny in the days before Noah's flood. But, setting that whole discussion aside, the particular "angels" in Revelation 9:14-15 were NOT celestial creatures. The word for "angels" in Greek simply means "messenger" - whether human or divine messengers. It just depends on the scripture context as to which one is intended. And in this Revelation 9 context, these were HUMAN messengers that were first "bound at the Euphrates", and then "loosed" at a very specific hour, day, month, and year to slay the third part of men.
The entire account of this sixth trumpet judgment (the second woe) is prophesied in great detail, starting in Revelation 9:13 and finishing up finally in Revelation 11:14. It is a fascinating story about a particular period that Josephus (without realizing the connection) already covered in his Wars accounts (Wars 4.4-5). Many specific numbers Josephus mentioned are an exact match with the Revelation sixth-trumpet prophecy, which had predicted the whole story beforehand. This story involved the Idumean troops which were tricked into invading Jerusalem a year or so after the Jewish war with the Romans had begun in AD 66.
At that time, there were THREE factions then present in Jerusalem that were contending with one another for supremacy. Put a red flag beside these 3 numbers. #1, the moderate priesthood faction led by Ananas, son of Annas, a former high priest who wanted to retain stability to preserve a functioning temple system. #2, Eleazar and his radical Zealot followers, and #3, the conniving rebel leader John of Gischala, who played both of the other sides against each other in order to advance his own position. Hoping to get rid of his rival Ananas, John instigated the whole Idumean invasion when he caused a rumor to be sent to the Idumeans that Ananas was planning to surrender the city to the Romans. Believing this lie, the war-mongering Idumeans immediately got together an army of *20,000 horsemen* - "TWO myriads of myriads" as the Greek has it in Rev. 9:16 (NOT the mistaken 200 MILLION amount that is so frequently mistranslated, since one "myriad" is only ten thousand).
These 20,000 Idumean horsemen were led by no less and no more than FOUR commanders (Josephus lists these four by name). These were the "four angels" or "four messengers" of Rev. 9:14-15. When these 20,000 Idumean horsemen and their four commanders arrived at Jerusalem's main gates, they found that Ananus the former high priest had barred the gates against admitting them. In other words, they were "bound" at the entrance of the city. Just how does the River Euphrates come into this picture? Because Jerusalem, "that great city" in Revelation, was symbolically called "Babylon the Great", and ancient Babylon's entrance had its barred gates submerged in the middle of the River Euphrates which flowed into the city, virtually dividing it in two on either side. To be "bound at the Euphrates" meant that symbolically, the four Idumean commanders were denied entrance at the main gates of "Babylon the Great" (Jerusalem).
This restriction enraged the Idumeans, who were not appeased even when Joshua (another moderate, former high priest) pleaded with them from over the wall to return to reason, telling the Idumeans that they had been duped into believing a lie. That night a "prodigious storm" broke out at Jerusalem, with "the bellowings of an earthquake" Josephus said (which was the "great earthquake" at Jerusalem that Revelation 11:13 predicted). Under cover of the noise generated by the storm, the Zealot faction opposed to the moderate high priest Ananas' party managed to saw open the bars of Jerusalem's gates and "loosed" the four commanders and the Idumean army of 20,000 through those gates into the city, to attack Ananus and those under his command. This was very similar to the one-night takedown of ancient Babylon by Cyrus, whose army broke into ancient Babylon that night of Belshazzar's feast by going under the River Euphrates' barred gates. Cyrus had diverted the flow of the Euphratese into other channels, and thus lowered the water level enough so that his army could go underneath the submerged Euphrates gates, thus taking down the empire of the Chaldeans in a single night.
By the next morning, Josephus wrote that between the earthquake and the Idumean and Zealot attack, there were 8,000 men that were dead, including the murder of both former high priests, Ananus and Joshua (the "two witnesses"). This 8,000 number seems to be on target with Rev. 11:13, which says "there were slain of men 7,000" in that same hour as the storm. This number of casualties in the sixth trumpet judgment is the equivalent of "the third part of men" who were slain by the two myriads of horsemen in Rev. 9:15 This was NOT a third part of men in the entire globe, because this prophecy was describing an event that would take place in Jerusalem alone - "where Christ was crucified" (Rev. 11:8).
With the death of the two former high priests, that entire moderate THIRD faction of Ananas' men in the city was destroyed. Those two high priests who had labored so hard to preserve the status quo in Jerusalem against the rebellious Zealots had their dead bodies stripped naked and left unburied in the streets of Jerusalem by their enemies (as Rev. 11:9 predicted). Their enemies stood on the dead bodies of these two "by way of jest", Josephus said, and scolded their carcases for being the cause of the attack on the city. Revelation 11:10 said that those dwelling on the earth (tes ges - the land of Israel) would rejoice at the death of the two witnesses who had tormented them. This the Zealots did, once the moderate high priesthood party had been eliminated. After that, the inhabitants of Jerusalem were left defenseless against the unrestrained hands of the other two warring factions, who preyed on them equally from then on.
A bit of a long story, but with a mixture of BOTH literal and symbolic included. And anyone who is fearfully anticipating this event in our future needs to relax. The angel's sixth trumpet judgment has been fulfilled to the letter looooong ago.
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