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This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

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From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

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This probably won't be the mark of the Beast

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  • This probably won't be the mark of the Beast

    I'm front running this before it happens because the situation seems pretty inevitable to me. This isn't any sort of prophecy or anything, I'm just using common sense, so I could always be wrong about the outcome.

    Judging by the reaction of the entire world to this current virus situation, and looking at how intrusive world governments have become to combat this situation (the severity of the virus itself is a moot point here -- the reaction is treating it as the end of the world), it's practically GUARANTEED that once a vaccine comes out, governments around the world are going to implement some sort of digital verification system that you've been immunized.

    And this verification system will likely be stored in a global database. The verification will be digital and will probably be an ap on your phone, some sort of ID card, or -- dare I say -- perhaps even a digital chip implant. It makes perfect sense, and here's why.

    Life can return to normal. Folks will be able to travel again, ride public transit, take flights, cross borders, go to concerts and sporting events without fear of spreading a virus. Though I have no doubt the masses will rush to get the vaccine by the millions once it's released, there are undoubtedly those that for whatever reason (whether religious or some other reason) will refuse to get it.

    I imagine huge political discussions and debates about this inevitable dilemma will occur -- whether it's legal or not to force folks to get it, and what legally can be done to enforce it.

    Folks that don't have verification will at first be very inconvenienced and shut out of society for the most part, and at first will be subjected to ridicule. But then they'll eventually been seen as a public health threat to the rest of the masses, maybe even dubbed a terrorist. It will almost be impossible not to get the vaccine and verification because you won't be able to function in society without it, and it might even pose grave danger of physical attack.

    I'm sure "Mark of the Beast" will be brought up in the discussions, if for no other reason, just as something to be ridiculed and scoffed at. In fact, I'm sure there are Christians that are going to freak out about it. However, I DO NOT believe this is going to be the mark of the Beast (even though I believe the timing is a bit alarming), and here's why.

    I don't believe the mark of the Beast will be something that tricks us into taking it. When you look at Revelation, it's pretty clear the Beast is worshipped worldwide. Taking the mark undoubtedly is connected to that worship somehow, which is why it's detrimental to your faith and salvation.

    In this case, you're just following a government mandate -- like getting a driver's license, SSN, or paying taxes -- with no religious implications or connotations, and has nothing to do with worship, thus I see no reason this will be detrimental to your faith anymore than following any other prior government mandate.

    I could be wrong though. Share your thoughts. I'd prefer to hear opinions from futurists, but all opinions are welcome.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  • #2
    You sound as paranoid as Darfius right now.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
      You sound as paranoid as Darfius right now.
      If you believe that a real Evil one exists, and that the hearts of men are wicked, then you have to be open to almost any evil being plausible.
      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
        If you believe that a real Evil one exists, and that the hearts of men are wicked, then you have to be open to almost any evil being plausible.
        Except that the Mark of the Beast can't be something you could get by accident.
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
          You sound as paranoid as Darfius right now.
          Global populations have been almost entirely shut down because of this virus to the point it's crippling the global economy. Global industry is at a stand still. Central banks are literally pumping trillions into the financial systems to keep them from collapsing. Congress just passed a 2 trillion bailout on top of all that to try and save our economy, and other countries are doing the same to save theirs.

          Paranoid relative to what though?
          "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

          Comment


          • #6
            There is no need for a digital chip to keep track of a vaccine. That's what that blue form that records your vaccinations is for!
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
              There is no need for a digital chip to keep track of a vaccine. That's what that blue form that records your vaccinations is for!
              If I'm right, will you come back in here and publicly declare "You were right wise one?"
              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seanD View Post
                If I'm right, will you come back in here and publicly declare "You were right wise one?"
                Sure.
                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                Comment


                • #9
                  The initial analysis seems correct that however we understand the mark of the beast to be, it's not something that people are tricked into doing, and I don't think the initial audience of Revelation would have understood it that way either. That's what's most relevant on a theology website. Instead, we are sidetracked into a discussion on how inevitable such a tracking program would be, and my only comment is that if this government couldn't even successfully set up a website for a healthcare exchange, I'd like to see how well they could successfully set up this sort of verification program.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    The initial analysis seems correct that however we understand the mark of the beast to be, it's not something that people are tricked into doing, and I don't think the initial audience of Revelation would have understood it that way either. That's what's most relevant on a theology website. Instead, we are sidetracked into a discussion on how inevitable such a tracking program would be, and my only comment is that if this government couldn't even successfully set up a website for a healthcare exchange, I'd like to see how well they could successfully set up this sort of verification program.
                    Agreed! The governments of Earth simply aren't competent enough! And a one world government seems unlikely to me. No one can get along well enough for that.
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      The initial analysis seems correct that however we understand the mark of the beast to be, it's not something that people are tricked into doing, and I don't think the initial audience of Revelation would have understood it that way either. That's what's most relevant on a theology website. Instead, we are sidetracked into a discussion on how inevitable such a tracking program would be, and my only comment is that if this government couldn't even successfully set up a website for a healthcare exchange, I'd like to see how well they could successfully set up this sort of verification program.
                      That's a good point, but it depends on who implements the system. Governments, particularly US government, often use private contractors for these sort of things. To my knowledge, the Obamacare website was full US government ineptness in all its glory. I could be wrong, but if there had been a private company behind it, we would have heard about it. I would imagine a global project like this would be private for the most part with government oversight only.
                      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        IMO, the mark of the beast is the opposite of the seal of God on the forehead. Those with the seal of God are protected while those with the mark of the beast are designated for punishment. (Rev 14:11, 16:2, 19:20, 20:4, 7:3, 9:4, 14:1, 22:4) etc.
                        The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

                        https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

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                        • #13
                          It's not the mark of the beast because I'm still here and haven't been raptured yet.



                          However, I DO believe this whole thing could be a judgment from God, one of the "birth pangs" that Jesus talks about.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                          • #14
                            There won't be any digital verification, etc when a vaccine comes out. Once there is a vaccine, it will be treated like any other disease with a vaccine like the flu. They will urge you to get the yearly shot. If you are at risk, your doctor will insist you get it. But it will be up to you.

                            That is my "prophesy"

                            This disease isn't like ebola or something. 99% of the people getting it recover just fine. All you antivaxxers can not get the shot if you want to and won't have to get a chip.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              This disease isn't like ebola or something. 99% of the people getting it recover just fine.
                              Governments aren't acting like that though. They're treating it like it's the end of world, and as a result, global industry and economy are being dramatically disrupted. My argument is that they'll treat the cure with the same sense of hysteria. Why wouldn't they? But, again, we'll see who's right.
                              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                              Comment

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