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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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This probably won't be the mark of the Beast

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Darfius View Post
    These bozos have no understanding that the economy has already seen a hit that will at the very least bring about times worse than the Great Depression and that making up money out of thin air as the Fed is doing is only kicking the can a few more inches down the road, sean. In their world, only Jews are accountable to God and America's hundreds of millions of dead babies (worldwide) are something God "winks at" (a Mandela'd phrase for my fans) because of Christ's blood or some such nonsense. Not in the Bible, but in their cowardly hearts and minds.

    It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that though the virus appears to be real, the response to it has been unprecedented and extreme. I expect they will soon throw in the fog of war to cover the current gap between their claims and reality to bring about the scenario you suggest. John uses a word in Greek that implies the mark is both "in" those who take it and "on" them, which suggests a combination of a chip and some sort of tattoo proving possession of the chip to those without means of digital verification (useful for the social signaling that one is vaccinated).
    Yeah the economy is toast (but it was already toast even before this, something folks don't understand). I don't see anyway possible we could get back to "normal" anytime this year EVEN IF the virus just disappeared tomorrow, which doesn't look like it's going to happen either. And I don't see the hysteria over this dying out at all, so I have no idea where that idea comes from, at least not in the media.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

    Comment


    • #32
      Duh...

      Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, revealed Friday the federal government is considering issuing Americans certificates of immunity from the coronavirus, as the Trump administration works to better identify those who have been infected and restart the U.S. economy in the coming weeks.

      "You know, that's possible," Fauci told CNN's "New Day," when asked whether he could imagine a time when people across the country carry such forms of identification.

      "I mean, it's one of those things that we talk about when we want to make sure that we know who the vulnerable people are and not," he said. "This is something that's being discussed. I think it might actually have some merit, under certain circumstances."

      source
      Though I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. Fauci testing the waters if you will. It will definitely also be tied to the vaccination itself. First you'll probably be tested and then given the vaccination if negative, then receive the verification. It will probably be something readily visible so folks can easily see it. So, now that the possibility is out of the way -- is this the mark of the Beast? To futurists.

      So far:

      Myself -- Probably not (even if it's a digital chip implant).
      Moss -- No.
      Eschaton -- No (I think).
      Darfius -- Yes (I think).
      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

      Comment


      • #33
        You're right about Eschaton.
        666 And The Name

        http://https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D1M48M4/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1594855398&refinements=p_2 7%3AAlan+Fuller&s=digital-text&sr=1-1&text=Alan+Fuller

        https://sites.google.com/site/apocalypticwisdom/

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by seanD View Post
          Duh...



          Though I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. Fauci testing the waters if you will. It will definitely also be tied to the vaccination itself. First you'll probably be tested and then given the vaccination if negative, then receive the verification. It will probably be something readily visible so folks can easily see it. So, now that the possibility is out of the way -- is this the mark of the Beast? To futurists.

          So far:

          Myself -- Probably not (even if it's a digital chip implant).
          Moss -- No.
          Eschaton -- No (I think).
          Darfius -- Yes (I think).
          More like a police state. "Show me your papers!"

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            More like a police state. "Show me your papers!"
            This is why a lot of folks will reject it. Not just based on religious views, or views about vaccination, but because it will reek of authoritarianism and implied force. How they deal with that will be interesting. Though I still think force won't be necessary, because societal pressure will be all that's needed. However, if they do get forceful, that could be a game changer.
            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

            Comment


            • #36
              It's just too easy.


              And don't assume that once a vaccination program starts rolling out, you can jump on the next plane, whether or not you've had it. Nicholson reckons that proof of vaccination might become advisory, or even mandatory, for destinations.

              An international certificate of vaccination or prophylaxis (ICVP) -- which travelers must carry to enter certain countries which mandate a yellow fever vaccination, or to exit those with high polio risk -- could be the next addition to your travel kit.

              "I think we'll have a formal certificate, either online or on paper, showing that you've been vaccinated at a recognized, accredited clinic, as we do for yellow fever," she says.

              "It'll be the destination demanding it -- and that could be everyone.

              "Most countries where there's a vulnerable or older population will certainly be demanding proof because we know how devastating the disease can be."

              And I don't even consider myself that smart, so what does this say about the folks that couldn't see this inevitability coming?

              Companies are preparing to design digital immunity certificates for COVID-19 that could be used when a vaccine is available.

              Why it matters: The vaccine won't roll out to everyone at the same time, so we need some way for those who have been immunized to easily demonstrate that they can safely return to work and travel. The easiest way might be a digital certificate that can be linked to a passport or even a mobile phone.

              Background: The World Health Organization already issues paper "yellow cards" that act as an international certification of vaccination, primarily to be used when entering a country that has enhanced health risks to travelers.
              • But a paper certificate, as experts warned in a white paper released earlier this year, could be subject to fraud and would be too difficult to quickly scale up for hundreds of millions of people.
              • Digital certificates, though, could be rapidly and safely distributed and made easily verifiable at borders or even in businesses, says Lars Reger, the CTO of the semiconductor company NXP, which makes biometric technology now used in some passports.

              How it works: Digital certificates could be added onto biometric passports or other smart ID cards that already contain a small chip that is used to confirm the identity of the holder.
              • Another option would be to make use of the contactless payment system currently available in most recent smartphones, which could "easily transport the information that someone has certified immunity," says Reger.
              • Rolling out such a functionality to smartphones would eliminate the need for investing in new technology, and any business that can read contactless payments should be able to accept immunity certificates with just a software update, he says.
              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

              Comment


              • #37
                Vaccine cards/passports are nothing new. They did this with Polo in the 1900s https://www.historyofvaccines.org/in...eer-card-front

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by ReformedApologist View Post
                  Vaccine cards/passports are nothing new. They did this with Polo in the 1900s https://www.historyofvaccines.org/in...eer-card-front
                  Did they shut down entire economies as a result of polio? And what was it specifically used for? Was it actually used to verify you've been immunized to allow you movement and travel across borders and access parts of society that had been been shutdown prior? I'm not too familiar with it, but I would imagine the circumstances alone, much less what it was specifically used for, is an entire different ballgame than it is currently.
                  "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Let me ask this concerning the MOTB, if say its a literal mark, then what is the literal/seal of God? We know according to Scripture that Israel we are keep God's law in mind and heart (Deuteronomy 6:8-9; 11:18-19; Proverbs 3:1-3; 6:20-21; 7:1-3), and as New Testament believers we are sealed by the Spirit (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30; Revelation 7:3).

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ReformedApologist View Post
                      Let me ask this concerning the MOTB, if say its a literal mark, then what is the literal/seal of God? We know according to Scripture that Israel we are keep God's law in mind and heart (Deuteronomy 6:8-9; 11:18-19; Proverbs 3:1-3; 6:20-21; 7:1-3), and as New Testament believers we are sealed by the Spirit (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30; Revelation 7:3).
                      Your guess is as good as mine. We obviously won't know until it happens.
                      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post

                        Your guess is as good as mine. We obviously won't know until it happens.
                        Then why why make speculations? Scripture warns against that.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ReformedApologist View Post

                          Then why why make speculations? Scripture warns against that.
                          Not really. In fact, to the contrary, Jesus pretty much instructed us to know the signs (knowing the seasons, knowing when he's at the door, etc.). The only thing off limits is picking a specific date of his return. But we know how futile that is anyway, evident by the countless embarrassing false alarms by Christian prognosticators throughout history. It's kind of silly to argue we're not to generally speculate about the future when we have all sorts of instances (Jesus, Paul, John) giving us clues and signs to watch out for. What would be the point of that? But just out of curiosity, where do you find passages forbidding speculation about the future?

                          Btw, this thread is not really speculating anything other than what I was right about. I mean the title pretty much says it -- This probably won't be the mark of the Beast.

                          But wait until you see what I post in my other thread about this subject. That's really going to cause some controversy.
                          "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I understand but there is still that danger cause I seen many people claiming to be prophets/teachers etc use this to their advantage.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ReformedApologist View Post
                              I understand but there is still that danger cause I seen many people claiming to be prophets/teachers etc use this to their advantage.
                              Well, I have never nor ever will claim to be any sort of prophet in any way, shape, or form. And anyone that tells you they're a prophet or they have a special word from the Lord about end times, you probably should run to the hills. I base most of my forecast analysis on research and study of political, geopolitical and economic world events. It's my hobby. I have no special spiritual insight than any other Christian has, and I can always be wrong, and I often am.
                              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seanD View Post

                                Well, I have never nor ever will claim to be any sort of prophet in any way, shape, or form. And anyone that tells you they're a prophet or they have a special word from the Lord about end times, you probably should run to the hills. I base most of my forecast analysis on research and study of political, geopolitical and economic world events. It's my hobby. I have no special spiritual insight than any other Christian has, and I can always be wrong, and I often am.
                                What is your interpretation of these verses?

                                1 Corinthians 12:27-29
                                King James Version

                                27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

                                28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

                                29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
                                666 And The Name

                                http://https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D1M48M4/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1594855398&refinements=p_2 7%3AAlan+Fuller&s=digital-text&sr=1-1&text=Alan+Fuller

                                https://sites.google.com/site/apocalypticwisdom/

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