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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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  • Romans 10
    9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      Ah - so we're better than Darfius because we don't indulge in boasting.
      What the heck are you rabbiting on about? I did not say, nor mean to imply, that we're better than Darfius. Just because I disagreed with you elsewhere doesn't mean you have to jump in here and go full jackass.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
        Replete with all the anathemas?
        Don't be a pedant. You know full well that "Nicene Creed" without qualifier refers to the 381 revision; the only uncertainty would be the inclusion/exclusion of the filioque.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Don't be a pedant. You know full well that "Nicene Creed" without qualifier refers to the 381 revision; the only uncertainty would be the inclusion/exclusion of the filioque.
          Actually - No. I wasn't aware of that. Filed for future reference.

          And the way I respond to people who disagree with me should by now be well enough known to make it clear that your disagreement with me in the Jeffrey Dahmer thread (presumably) had nothing to do with my response to your post re Darfius.
          Last edited by tabibito; 06-26-2019, 10:36 AM.
          sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Being a Christian is pointless if Jesus did not rise from the dead. Read 1 Corinthians.
            Overcoming the world and our sin is "pointless" if Jesus did not rise from the dead? And I am to believe that someone who thinks this way "hungers and thirsts" for righteousness? "If I ain't gunna live forever, what's the point of being good?" Come now. That is wicked nonsense. Nor is it what 1 Corinthians or any part of the Bible says. Paul says we are "most to be pitied" if Christ did not rise from the dead. And he did not mean some vulgar, pagan notion of immortality. In fact, he says what he means: "17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins." "Still in your sins." Not "still destined to be punished for your sins." Still "IN" them. For Jesus came to save His people FROM their sins, not from the punishment for them. Paul was saying that if Christ was not who He said He was--which if He did not rise from the dead He most certainly would not have been--then He had no more power to save us from sin than any other man and we were more to be pitied than anyone for thinking we had hope when no such hope existed. Paul was the man who yelled in anguish, "Who will deliver me from this body of death!", a cry you cannot yet understand because you fear punishment more than you fear being a creature worthy of punishment, meaning you are not yet made perfect in love.
            Last edited by Darfius; 06-26-2019, 01:49 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Romans 10
              9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
              Saved from what?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                Saved from what?
                From hell.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                  Overcoming the world and our sin is "pointless" if Jesus did not rise from the dead? And I am to believe that someone who thinks this way "hungers and thirsts" for righteousness? "If I ain't gunna live forever, what's the point of being good?" Come now. That is wicked nonsense. Nor is it what 1 Corinthians or any part of the Bible says. Paul says we are "most to be pitied" if Christ did not rise from the dead. And he did not mean some vulgar, pagan notion of immortality. In fact, he says what he means: "17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins." "Still in your sins." Not "still destined to be punished for your sins." Still "IN" them. For Jesus came to save His people FROM their sins, not from the punishment for them. Paul was saying that if Christ was not who He said He was--which if He did not rise from the dead He most certainly would not have been--then He had no more power to save us from sin than any other man and we were more to be pitied than anyone for thinking we had hope when no such hope existed. Paul was the man who yelled in anguish, "Who will deliver me from this body of death!", a cry you cannot yet understand because you fear punishment more than you fear being a creature worthy of punishment, meaning you are not yet made perfect in love.
                  Oh you could still be a decent person. You would need a different worldview than Christianity if Jesus didn't rise from the dead. I trust in Jesus for salvation, because I believe the Resurrection of Jesus is the best explanation for the empty tomb and appearances of Jesus to over five hundred people.
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    From hell.
                    I've already had this discussion.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                      Oh you could still be a decent person. You would need a different worldview than Christianity if Jesus didn't rise from the dead. I trust in Jesus for salvation, because I believe the Resurrection of Jesus is the best explanation for the empty tomb and appearances of Jesus to over five hundred people.
                      Is that why Mary and Martha trusted in Jesus for salvation, do you think?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                        "Any more psalms dealing with the sovereignty of God or that He is our Protector? In a physical sense anyway. He isn't going to miraculously save you from every Roman you encounter, so we should still be aware of our surroundings. But I don't need to fear Satan! Because I am a child of Abraham! That's much better than being a righteous Gentile or something. Yes, I'm saying being a Jew is cooler than all of the righteous acts of any Gentile you can imagine. Even if scary and sad stuff happens, it is only temporary. One day, we shall regain sovereignty over our land and live happily ever after in a restored Israel! I don't claim to know what will happen in between, but I will let God "worry" about that!" --A Jew circa 25 A.D.
                        Hmmm...

                        FIFY

                        Any more psalms dealing with the sovereignty of God or that He is our Protector? In a physical sense anyway. He isn't going to miraculously save you from every Roman you encounter, so we should still be aware of our surroundings. But I don't need to fear Satan! Because I am a child of Abraham! That's much better than being a righteous Gentile or something. Yes, I'm saying being a Jew is cooler than any human patron-client relationship. Even if scary and sad stuff happens, it is only temporary. One day, we shall regain sovereignty over our land and live happily ever after in a restored Israel! I don't claim to know what will happen in between, but I will let God "worry" about that!" --A Jew circa 25 A.D.
                        Missed the point. I did not claim being a Christian was better than being an Old Testament saint!

                        By the way, would you mind listing the doctrines you feel are of primary importance? That is, the ones that you have to have right or be considered a heretic in danger of not actually being saved.
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                          By the way, would you mind listing the doctrines you feel are of primary importance? That is, the ones that you have to have right or be considered a heretic in danger of not actually being saved.
                          That is the crux of the problem. You keep trying to turn faith into a list of doctrines, rather than a vital interaction and interchange with your Maker.

                          Scripture Verse: Luke 19:19

                          Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.
                          5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.
                          7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”
                          8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”
                          9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          Was Jesus saying that Zacchaeus was saved because he was a Jew? No, He was saying that he was a son of Abraham in faith, as Paul later clarified. And what was the evidence of his faith? His renunciation of the evil ways he had had before. No words or creed about believing in Jesus, but it was his faith in the living Jesus standing before him that brought about his salvation.

                          Comment


                          • Doctrines do provide a framework to hang our faith on. Provided that they are built on the foundation of the apostles (that foundation being Christ), I see no problem with adopting doctrines. Of course there is always the risk to be watched for, of adopting man-made precepts as doctrine.
                            sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                              Then why did you ask?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                Then why did you ask?
                                Because I had hope (apparently vain) that you had grown wiser since then.

                                Comment

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