Announcement

Collapse

Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Generation Y and Z Confirms Futurism is true

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by seanD View Post

    I consider the saying that "God is still God" as much a strawman argument as those who say "We should just occupy until he comes."

    As a futurist, I agree with both and have never argued or suggested against either, yet for some reason those seem to be the go-to arguments whenever eschatology is discussed.

    I'm sure you're aware that leaning more politically conservative doesn't automatically mean more religious. Christianity likely won't die completely in the world before Jesus returns (though Luke 18:8 is somewhat intriguing), but it will seriously wane. And you can easily see this not just in scripture but in current poll statistics, especially with the younger generation here in the western world. Maybe this has happened before in the past, but you'd have to show me citations as evidence.

    No, it's not a strawman since it confronts only the defeatism. We weren't discussing eschatology as far as I knew.*

    Stupid article you could have looked up yourself. I studied Poli Sci in the Eighties/Early Nineties. At that time, the papers on the subject were still pretty consistently showing the trend of growing more conservative with age. A trend that had first been observed in the early part of the Twentieth Century. If you wanna pay for journal access, knock yourself out. Online, the only contrary stuff I saw was media based.

    Lazy citation for the Great Awakening.

    And, because I actually had the Second in mind, here's a brief citation on it.

    I see better evidence that the end times might be near. But frankly, if Jesus didn't know the day and hour, I sure don't. Giving up on everyone because things look bad is just not defensible in Scripture.

    If we're in the end times, that's just more reason to try harder to reflect Christ to a world that so badly needs Him. If not, then it's even more important that we leave the best legacy we can for the next generation to find and themselves reflect the Savior.

    Those idiot kids will grow up. Some will even do a good job of it. Our job is to show them what it means to follow Christ and to be grown ups. I think a better way to do that is to confront the already desolate areas of Earth that deny Christ and martyr His people. Because it's already worse than you're imagining - just not here. We just have a bunch of idiots that are trying to relive the Sixties, minus the tie dye.

    Now is not the time for defeatism. Now is the time for truly following Christ.




    *EDIT: I didn't realize we were in the Eschatology Section. Sorry.

    Last edited by Teallaura; 07-22-2022, 06:16 PM.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

      No, it's not a strawman since it confronts only the defeatism. We weren't discussing eschatology as far as I knew.*

      Stupid article you could have looked up yourself. I studied Poli Sci in the Eighties/Early Nineties. At that time, the papers on the subject were still pretty consistently showing the trend of growing more conservative with age. A trend that had first been observed in the early part of the Twentieth Century. If you wanna pay for journal access, knock yourself out. Online, the only contrary stuff I saw was media based.

      Lazy citation for the Great Awakening.

      And, because I actually had the Second in mind, here's a brief citation on it.

      I see better evidence that the end times might be near. But frankly, if Jesus didn't know the day and hour, I sure don't. Giving up on everyone because things look bad is just not defensible in Scripture.

      If we're in the end times, that's just more reason to try harder to reflect Christ to a world that so badly needs Him. If not, then it's even more important that we leave the best legacy we can for the next generation to find and themselves reflect the Savior.

      Those idiot kids will grow up. Some will even do a good job of it. Our job is to show them what it means to follow Christ and to be grown ups. I think a better way to do that is to confront the already desolate areas of Earth that deny Christ and martyr His people. Because it's already worse than you're imagining - just not here. We just have a bunch of idiots that are trying to relive the Sixties, minus the tie dye.

      Now is not the time for defeatism. Now is the time for truly following Christ.




      *EDIT: I didn't realize we were in the Eschatology Section. Sorry.

      No one's talking about day or hour of Jesus' return. You have so many strawmen in your post I can't address it all.

      As far as defeatism -- stating facts and reality is not defeatism. If I tell you I see signs of a hurricane approaching based on data I'm looking at and from things we can observe, that's not defeatism. When Paul clarified to the Thessalonians that they weren't yet in the last days because the church hadn't fallen away yet, something that would happen and be a sure sign of this, that wasn't defeatism. Paul was stating a fact. When Jesus asked the question if he would find faith on the earth once he returned, that wasn't defeatism. He stating a fact.

      Putting scripture aside that explicitly states Christianity will wane (that you seem to be ignoring), again, a shift towards political conservatism doesn't = religious. I've seen multiple studies showing religion is in decline in the western world, especially Christian religion and that's just general Christian belief. Forget about evangelical Christianity which is practically extinct among the youth. That's not defeatism, that's stating a fact. Even establishment Christianity that is left is becoming more and more infected with the woke cult and will probably be unrecognizable in just a few years.

      Though I definitely do agree with you that thinking we're in the last days is actually a positive thing. It spurs on a sense of urgency in the church (or at least should) which inspires evangelism. This is actually why I think God allowed each generation to erroneously think they were in the last days in spite of the fact there were some major backeyes to the church as a result of specific false predictions. The good apparently outweighed the bad because it allowed the church to not get complacent and expand in each generation.
      "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seanD View Post

        No one's talking about day or hour of Jesus' return. You have so many strawmen in your post I can't address it all.

        As far as defeatism -- stating facts and reality is not defeatism. If I tell you I see signs of a hurricane approaching based on data I'm looking at and from things we can observe, that's not defeatism. When Paul clarified to the Thessalonians that they weren't yet in the last days because the church hadn't fallen away yet, something that would happen and be a sure sign of this, that wasn't defeatism. Paul was stating a fact. When Jesus asked the question if he would find faith on the earth once he returned, that wasn't defeatism. He stating a fact.

        Putting scripture aside that explicitly states Christianity will wane (that you seem to be ignoring), again, a shift towards political conservatism doesn't = religious. I've seen multiple studies showing religion is in decline in the western world, especially Christian religion and that's just general Christian belief. Forget about evangelical Christianity which is practically extinct among the youth. That's not defeatism, that's stating a fact. Even establishment Christianity that is left is becoming more and more infected with the woke cult and will probably be unrecognizable in just a few years.

        Though I definitely do agree with you that thinking we're in the last days is actually a positive thing. It spurs on a sense of urgency in the church (or at least should) which inspires evangelism. This is actually why I think God allowed each generation to erroneously think they were in the last days in spite of the fact there were some major backeyes to the church as a result of specific false predictions. The good apparently outweighed the bad because it allowed the church to not get complacent and expand in each generation.
        Okay, I didn't read this - other than the strawman crack. You're wrong about that. Never mind.

        I just realized that because I'm dealing with some stuff right now (well, trying to help friends with stuff) that I'm really oversensitive about defeatism. I still read your original post a defeatist but that may just be the way it sounds to me.

        Anyway, apologies for any offense and I'm bowing out since I'm not really contributing.

        Again, my apologies.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

          Okay, I didn't read this - other than the strawman crack. You're wrong about that. Never mind.

          I just realized that because I'm dealing with some stuff right now (well, trying to help friends with stuff) that I'm really oversensitive about defeatism. I still read your original post a defeatist but that may just be the way it sounds to me.

          Anyway, apologies for any offense and I'm bowing out since I'm not really contributing.

          Again, my apologies.
          No need for apologies, Teallaura, and no harm whatsoever.

          The reason I said you had strawmen is because I certainly don't disagree that God is in control of all this, in spite of how bad it gets, and I wasn't talking about day or hour or even a specific year of the Lord's return. I don't do that sort of thing. Though I would argue that we can know the generation (whether that's 40 years or 100 years is debatable), and that we were instructed to know the generation by the Lord himself.

          And I certainly never argued we should give up on anyone. To the contrary, we should be cognizant about the things happening, fight where we can fight, and alert the normies in the church how bad it's going get to insure the least amount of Christians do fall away when it gets tough.
          "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seanD View Post

            No need for apologies, Teallaura, and no harm whatsoever.

            The reason I said you had strawmen is because I certainly don't disagree that God is in control of all this, in spite of how bad it gets, and I wasn't talking about day or hour or even a specific year of the Lord's return. I don't do that sort of thing. Though I would argue that we can know the generation (whether that's 40 years or 100 years is debatable), and that we were instructed to know the generation by the Lord himself.

            And I certainly never argued we should give up on anyone. To the contrary, we should be cognizant about the things happening, fight where we can fight, and alert the normies in the church how bad it's going get to insure the least amount of Christians do fall away when it gets tough.
            I haven't gone back all the way through the thread but the wild card nobody is talking about here is the Holy Spirit, which ultimately leads people to faith. I'd be awfully reluctant to even imply that the Holy Spirit is powerless against the dark forces of the world, which I don't think anybody here has done, to be clear. But it's surprising nobody has mentioned it.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

              I haven't gone back all the way through the thread but the wild card nobody is talking about here is the Holy Spirit, which ultimately leads people to faith. I'd be awfully reluctant to even imply that the Holy Spirit is powerless against the dark forces of the world, which I don't think anybody here has done, to be clear. But it's surprising nobody has mentioned it.
              Simple explanation, which is backed by scripture like Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13) and the Narrow Gate (Luke 13:23-24) to name just two, is that there are a whole of wish-washy people under a false pretense of Christian than we actually think there are, and these will be weeded out when things get really tough.

              Another explanation is simply that in time less and less young Christians will be converted because of the church's ineffectiveness as a result of its spiritual corruption and its adoption of wokeness, at the same time older generations die off. This seems to be what's been happening now.

              Ultimately, it's not like the Holy Spirit can't hold back his persuasive power. Depending on one's interpretation, 2 Thess 2:7 seems to imply this very thing.

              "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

              Comment

              Related Threads

              Collapse

              Topics Statistics Last Post
              Started by seanD, 08-01-2022, 11:48 PM
              45 responses
              290 views
              0 likes
              Last Post seanD
              by seanD
               
              Started by Dave L, 01-03-2022, 06:30 AM
              52 responses
              497 views
              1 like
              Last Post Faber
              by Faber
               
              Started by seanD, 02-05-2014, 02:15 PM
              65 responses
              9,928 views
              0 likes
              Last Post seanD
              by seanD
               
              Working...
              X