Generation Y and Z Confirms Futurism is true

[seanD]

Well the good news for you futurist is that we're only 60% of the way to "...preaching the Gospel to the whole world before the end will come." (Matt 24:14)

https://joshuaproject.net/resources/...everyone_heard says:



https://globalfrontiermissions.org/g...at-commission/ says:

So, at least we know the end isn't coming real soon!

"The end" probably should be clarified. I believe Jesus interprets "the end" as the Tribulation, and Matthew 24:14 makes that pretty clear. He says there is a time called the Beginning of Sorrows (which I firmly believe we're in right now) that's a precursor. The Beginning of Sorrows is a time where terrible and disturbing events accumulate (including persecution of the church), causing worldwide trepidation, and though it's bad, it's not "the end," meaning the Tribulation hasn't started yet. When Jesus says "see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet," I interpret that as "Cheer up saints, yes it's bad, but you haven't seen anything yet." When the Tribulation happens, they'll be no doubt to us that this is it.

[Littlejoe]

"The end" probably should be clarified. I believe Jesus interprets "the end" as the Tribulation, and Matthew 24:14 makes that pretty clear. He says there is a time called the Beginning of Sorrows (which I firmly believe we're in right now) that's a precursor. The Beginning of Sorrows is a time where terrible and disturbing events accumulate (including persecution of the church), causing worldwide trepidation, and though it's bad, it's not "the end," meaning the Tribulation hasn't started yet. When Jesus says "see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet," I interpret that as "Cheer up saints, yes it's bad, but you haven't seen anything yet." When the Tribulation happens, they'll be no doubt to us that this is it.

So you believe there's a separate "beginning of sorrows" that is not part of or the start of the Tribulation? And you gave OBP a hard time about deviation from standard Preterist beliefs? That's not a common belief in my experience...but, I could be wrong. I haven't been a futurist in over 10 years so...

It took over 2000 years for us to get to 60%. Do you think the other 40% will gotten to in the next few years? Is so, how do you think that will happen?

[Littlejoe]

I have a hard time believing the world is evolving towards the better. There just seems too much evidence to the contray.

Have you studied much "real" history? Things were very brutal at the time of what Partial Preterists believe was the Tribulation...and IMO, they were pretty brutal world wide until this century.

ETA: I think things have gotten quite a bit better in the last 50 years.

[mossrose]

So you believe there's a separate "beginning of sorrows" that is not part of or the start of the Tribulation? And you gave OBP a hard time about deviation from standard Preterist beliefs? That's not a common belief in my experience...but, I could be wrong. I haven't been a futurist in over 10 years so...

It took over 2000 years for us to get to 60%. Do you think the other 40% will gotten to in the next few years? Is so, how do you think that will happen?

Why would we think that any human's perception of the percentage of people reached with the gospel is accurate? Only God knows who has and has not, for sure.

And trying to stick a date on His return is impossible. And anti-scriptural.

I am living as if Christ's return is imminent. As we are instructed to be doing in scripture. It may or may not be in our lifetime, but I know it will be when God's timing demands it.

[Littlejoe]

Why would we think that any human's perception of the percentage of people reached with the gospel is accurate? Only God knows who has and has not, for sure.

Surely you don't think that there's no way to at least get some sort of estimate of the work ahead of us in fulfilling the Great Commission? How do you know who to target if you don't know who has heard and who has not?

And trying to stick a date on His return is impossible. And anti-scriptural.

Who is that directed at? When did I suggest anything remotely like a date? I read SeanD's point to be the "Beginnings of Sorrows" has started or is close to starting...and that period is closely related to the actual start of the big event of "The Tribulation". I'm asking how long that period is supposed to last before the actual Tribulation starts?

I am living as if Christ's return is imminent. As we are instructed to be doing in scripture. It may or may not be in our lifetime, but I know it will be when God's timing demands it.

As any Christian should be...but surely, living as if your life may be required of you unexpectedly and living your life as if Christ's return is imminent are functionally the same...are they not?

[seanD]

So you believe there's a separate "beginning of sorrows" that is not part of or the start of the Tribulation? And you gave OBP a hard time about deviation from standard Preterist beliefs? That's not a common belief in my experience...but, I could be wrong. I haven't been a futurist in over 10 years so...

It took over 2000 years for us to get to 60%. Do you think the other 40% will gotten to in the next few years? Is so, how do you think that will happen?

I honestly don't see how anyone could read the OD and not come to that conclusion. Jesus literally says "Beginning of Sorrows" that he describes as a time of trouble -- wars, civil unrest, famines, pestilences, etc. -- before the Tribulation. He distinguishes this time from the actual Tribulation (Matthew 24:21). I honestly don't think he could have been any clearer. He then gives a benchmark for the start of the Tribulation -- something, an event, happens in Israel that starts the Tribulation that is much worse than we just saw previous.

As far as preaching the gospel to the world, I don't see how anyone could accurately quantify such a thing. There's never been a time in history that the gospel has been spread throughout the world as it is now. How could you know for sure which specific indigenous communities have or have not heard about it? What if there are communities that have heard about it but rejected it? How could anyone accurately assess that?

[Littlejoe]

I honestly don't see how anyone could read the OD and not come to that conclusion. Jesus literally says "Beginning of Sorrows" that he describes as a time of trouble -- wars, civil unrest, famines, pestilences, etc. -- before the Tribulation. He distinguishes this time from the actual Tribulation (Matthew 24:21). I honestly don't think he could have been any clearer. He then gives a benchmark for the start of the Tribulation -- something, an event, happens in Israel that starts the Tribulation.

I've heard that to mean the beginning of the Tribulation in contrast to the "the end" to mean the end of the tribulation.

As far as preaching the gospel to the world, I don't see how anyone could accurately quantify such a thing. There's never been a time in history that the gospel has been spread throughout the world as it is now. How could you know for sure which specific indigenous communities have or have not heard about it? What if there are communities that have heard about it but rejected it? How could anyone accurately assess that?

Again, how do you determine who to try to reach if you don't have a clue about who has been reached. Read the articles, they make valid points in assessing who has and has not heard the Gospel.

[mossrose]

Surely you don't think that there's no way to at least get some sort of estimate of the work ahead of us in fulfilling the Great Commission? How do you know who to target if you don't know who has heard and who has not?

You target everybody within the sphere of your influence.

Who is that directed at? When did I suggest anything remotely like a date? I read SeanD's point to be the "Beginnings of Sorrows" has started or is close to starting...and that period is closely related to the actual start of the big event of "The Tribulation". I'm asking how long that period is supposed to last before the actual Tribulation starts?

Wasn't directed at you specifically, darlin'. Just a general comment on the 60-40% thingy.

As any Christian should be...but surely, living as if your life may be required of you unexpectedly and living your life as if Christ's return is imminent are functionally the same...are they not?

Yes. And not worrying about what somebody says about the percentage of the world that's been reached by the gospel. I just don't think anything like that is an accurate representation of what any human could possibly know.

[seanD]

I've heard that to mean the beginning of the Tribulation in contrast to the "the end" to mean the end of the tribulation.

Again, how do you determine who to try to reach if you don't have a clue about who has been reached. Read the articles, they make valid points in assessing who has and has not heard the Gospel.

I don't see how to look at Matthew 24:21-22 in contrast to Matthew 24:6-14 as part of the same period. Unless you assume there is a stage of the Tribulation that isn't as bad as the later stage? To me Jesus seems to be describing a period that is a precursor -- a time that is bad that precedes a time that it is worse than anything in history. The benchmark that separates the two periods is something that occurs in Israel.

I still don't see how you can quantify whether every community has or hasn't heard about it at least in glancing (especially considering the awareness of western culture throughout the world). We're certainly in an age that "the gospel shall be preached in all the world as a witness" is certainly possible, but that doesn't guarantee its acceptance by any one individual or community that hears about it.

[One Bad Pig]

*crickets*

Man, that's quite a change from all the scoffing that went on in the beginning. Guess things don't look so funny anymore.

Not sure what response is needed to anecdotal evidence.

[seanD]

Not sure what response is needed to anecdotal evidence.

What anecdotal evidence?

[seanD]

Anyway, back to the topic.

Intersectionality: The new socioreligious experience of the millennial youth. It's more than just a political movement; it's similar to a religion (only non-theist for the most part, though there are theists getting mixed up in it), and it's a religion that is wholly anti-Christ and against all things fundamental to Christianity.

Case in point. Imagine the hostility one would face preaching about Christ to these unruly mobs tearing down statues or even just on a university campus today.

Though a similar youth movement may have occurred during the 60s -- where intersectional politics intermingled with a spiritual type of New Ageism -- the counter culture during that time faced resistance from society and the state, whereas now both the state and corporations not only don't resist, but give it a platform or just outright sanction it, and even purge or silence resistance against it. Also, consider this new millennial movement is occurring at a time conventional religious belief is alarmingly waning in the west.

This is really good article about the subject by Intelligencer...

Notice this article is three years old, yet this thing is as pervasive as ever across the country today, more than it was three years ago as far as I can tell. Another good article -- more up to date -- by Spectator that addresses the intermingling of this movement and the state as well as other religious institutions.

I would advise liberal Christians not jump on board this thing, or if you're already on board, get off now.


ETA: in case anyone hits a paywall on the Spectator article...

[seanD]

How pervasive the Intersectionality cult is becoming. You know you've got a pretty powerful phenomenon happening when its infection is reaching federal levels. Just to show how much I was actually underestimating this movement in the OP (bolded emphasis mine)....

Treasury Department The National Credit Union AdministrationSandia National LaboratoriesDepartment of Homeland SecurityFBI

Twitter source

[seanD]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's related to eschatology and it is what it is, and a reality we should prepare for...

Study Finds Many Young Americans ‘Don’t Care’ About God But Christian Leaders Are Hopeful

(emphasis mine)

The American Worldview Inventory 2021, the most recent research from Arizona Christian University (ACU), demonstrates that significant spiritual views differ significantly throughout contemporary generations.

The American Worldview Inventory 2021, a study of American adults' philosophy of life, evaluated the worldviews of four generations: millennials (born 1984-2002), Gen X (1965-1983), baby boomers (1946-1964), and builders (born 1946-1964). (1927-1945).

Per Christian Post's report, researchers found that millennials have gone farther than previous generations in severing links with conventional Christian beliefs and biblical teaching.

For example, over half of all baby boomers say that they will go to Heaven exclusively because they confessed their sins and accepted Jesus as their Savior, whereas only 26% of Gen X and 16% of millennials believe this.

Builders think that they should treat people the way they want to be treated, whereas just around half of millennials agree.

In addition, millennials are more likely than boomers to say they do not know, do not care, or do not think God exists, with 43 percent saying so. In addition, 44 percent of millennials think Satan is real and influential, compared to 64 percent of boomers.

Younger Americans are also substantially more inclined than earlier generations to believe horoscopes as a guide and Karma as a life philosophy, to consider "getting even" with others as justifiable, to believe evolution over creation, and to consider owning property as supporting economic inequality.

Younger Americans are significantly more prone than older Americans to doubt the Bible and feel God is completely disinterested in people's lives.

Surprisingly, the majority of Americans, ranging from 57% of millennials to 83 % of builders identify as Christians. (It's worth noting that many who call themselves "Christians" do not necessarily believe what the Bible says. These people, according to a previous poll, believe in "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism," or simply "watered-down, feel-good, fake Christianity.")

Researchers feel that the views and practices of younger Americans, particularly millennials, "threaten to reshape the nation's religious parameters beyond recognition."

They added, "In fact, this radical spiritual revolution has created a generation seeking a reimagined world without God, the Bible, or churches."

According to the report, Gen X and millennials have "solidified dramatic changes in the nation's central beliefs and lifestyles," adding, "The result is a culture in which core institutions, including churches, and basic ways of life are continually being radically redefined."

Unless preterists expect a miraculous revival, is "falling away" part of that position?

[KingsGambit]

This is a very western-centric view. The church is exploding in the global South right now. :shrugs: