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Patriarch Kirill

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  • Patriarch Kirill

    Patriarch Kirill is on record stating that the future Antichrist:

    - "..is a personality that will be at the head of the world wide web controlling the entire human race. Thus, the structure itself presents a danger...if we don’t want to bring the apocalypse closer, there should be no single [control and access] center".

    He goes on to state that he is not entirely against smartphones, but warns against "falling into slavery" to them. Also, "location, interests and fears" will make it possible for humans to be controlled by external forces.

    Now I believe there was recent rift between Patriarch Kirill/the Russian Orthodox church and the Patriarchate of Constantinople. However, my interest is in the eschatological remarks of Patriarch Kirill. So, can someone please inform me:

    1) If Patriarch Kirills' comments are an accepted viewpoint in general among the Orthodox?

    2) Are Russian Orthodox believers obligated to accept his view as he articulates it?

    3) Is there a standard Eschatology in EO, or is there is a plurality of accepted viewpoints?

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Scrawly; 05-13-2019, 11:50 PM.

  • #2
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
      Patriarch Kirill is on record stating that the future Antichrist:

      - "..is a personality that will be at the head of the world wide web controlling the entire human race. Thus, the structure itself presents a danger...if we don’t want to bring the apocalypse closer, there should be no single [control and access] center".
      The entire structure of the internet and web preclude any one person controlling it. There is no single control or access center. Sounds like he doesn't understand the internet and is just creating some false scare prophesies to gain notoriety using popular cultur references.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        The entire structure of the internet and web preclude any one person controlling it. There is no single control or access center. Sounds like he doesn't understand the internet and is just creating some false scare prophesies to gain notoriety using popular cultur references.
        To be fair, it's not made clear whether he believes the internet is already structured that way, or if he's warning that we shouldn't head towards such a configuration. Context would be helpful and none is provided.
        Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
          Patriarch Kirill is on record stating that the future Antichrist:

          - "..is a personality that will be at the head of the world wide web controlling the entire human race. Thus, the structure itself presents a danger...if we don’t want to bring the apocalypse closer, there should be no single [control and access] center".

          He goes on to state that he is not entirely against smartphones, but warns against "falling into slavery" to them. Also, "location, interests and fears" will make it possible for humans to be controlled by external forces.
          I don't know that I entirely trust the accuracy of translations of cherry-picked quotes from a source which seems hostile to the Moscow administration. I agree that smartphones can be dangerously addictive.
          Now I believe there was recent rift between Patriarch Kirill/the Russian Orthodox church and the Patriarchate of Constantinople. However, my interest is in the eschatological remarks of Patriarch Kirill. So, can someone please inform me:

          1) If Patriarch Kirills' comments are an accepted viewpoint in general among the Orthodox?
          Given it's the first time I've heard anything like this in 11 years, I'd lean toward "no".
          2) Are Russian Orthodox believers obligated to accept his view as he articulates it?
          Nope. Orthodox bishops are not popes.
          3) Is there a standard Eschatology in EO, or is there is a plurality of accepted viewpoints?

          Thank you.
          In Eastern Orthodoxy, what is stressed is that we should be prepared for His return. How exactly it will happen is not especially important, though chiliasm (pre-mil) was condemned as heretical around the 4th century. The conquest of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple in AD 70 is widely held to have fulfilled eschatological prophecy, but as the general resurrection is universally held to be yet in the future, hyperpreterism is ruled out.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            The entire structure of the internet and web preclude any one person controlling it. There is no single control or access center. Sounds like he doesn't understand the internet and is just creating some false scare prophesies to gain notoriety using popular cultur references.
            Yeah, that was my thought. Those who seek to control it can, at best, close some on ramps.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              Nope. Orthodox bishops are not popes.
              For that matter, if the pope were to make a comment like this in an interview, Catholics wouldn't be obligated to believe it. So much less an Orthodox patriarch who doesn't have that kind of authority.

              In Eastern Orthodoxy, what is stressed is that we should be prepared for His return. How exactly it will happen is not especially important, though chiliasm (pre-mil) was condemned as heretical around the 4th century. The conquest of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple in AD 70 is widely held to have fulfilled eschatological prophecy, but as the general resurrection is universally held to be yet in the future, hyperpreterism is ruled out.
              When/where was it condemned? I looked it up and it seems like it lost a lot of popularity around that time, but not that it was really condemned by a council or anything. Or are you just referring to Augustine and Jerome's opposition?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Yeah, that was my thought. Those who seek to control it can, at best, close some on ramps.
                yeah that was kind of the whole point of the Darpanet that it was based on, a decentralized network that could survive even a nuclear war.

                Of course now we have some backbone servers that would put a severe dent in the internet if someone were to take them down. And the nameservers. But it would be near impossible to take the whole thing down. or control it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                  When/where was it condemned? I looked it up and it seems like it lost a lot of popularity around that time, but not that it was really condemned by a council or anything. Or are you just referring to Augustine and Jerome's opposition?
                  I'll have to look it up myself; it's certainly not just Augustine and Jerome's opposition, since they didn't have a whole lot of impact on the Eastern church.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Yeah, that was my thought. Those who seek to control it can, at best, close some on ramps.
                    If you can get the major search engines on board, you can control things pretty well. China's internet is pretty well locked down, for example, and Google is pretty adept at burying sources they don't like, as has been shown here before.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      yeah that was kind of the whole point of the Darpanet that it was based on, a decentralized network that could survive even a nuclear war.

                      Of course now we have some backbone servers that would put a severe dent in the internet if someone were to take them down. And the nameservers. But it would be near impossible to take the whole thing down. or control it.
                      And it's kind of a spy-vs-spy thing --- somebody will come up with a way to make a dent, somebody else will figure out a way around it.

                      (I still think that most viruses are created by the anti-virus people to sell more product!!!! )
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                        When/where was it condemned? I looked it up and it seems like it lost a lot of popularity around that time, but not that it was really condemned by a council or anything. Or are you just referring to Augustine and Jerome's opposition?
                        At the Second Ecumenical Council:

                        Source: Orthodox Dogmatic Theology

                        If it was at one time possible to express chiliastic ideas as private opinions, this was only until the Ecumenical Church expressed its judgment about this. But when the Second Ecumenical Council (381), in condemning all the errors of the heretic Apollinarius, condemned also his teaching of the thousand-year reign of Christ and introduced into the very Symbol of Faith the words concerning Christ: And His Kingdom will have no end—it became no longer permissible at all for an Orthodox Christian to hold these opinions....

                        © Copyright Original Source


                        source
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Look into A.I. and bitcoin as a precursor to a beast-like control grid. Throw in 5G and it's a heady mix of doom. Skynet anyone?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            At the Second Ecumenical Council:

                            Source: Orthodox Dogmatic Theology

                            If it was at one time possible to express chiliastic ideas as private opinions, this was only until the Ecumenical Church expressed its judgment about this. But when the Second Ecumenical Council (381), in condemning all the errors of the heretic Apollinarius, condemned also his teaching of the thousand-year reign of Christ and introduced into the very Symbol of Faith the words concerning Christ: And His Kingdom will have no end—it became no longer permissible at all for an Orthodox Christian to hold these opinions....

                            © Copyright Original Source


                            source
                            Hrm... where did the Second Ecumenical Council (a.k.a. First Council of Constantinople) condemn chiliasm? I looked at the canons of the Second Ecumenical Council and I see no condemnation of a thousand-year reign of Christ, not even in the disputed canons. It does mention Apollinarius, but only as part of a list of heretics without going into any detail as to what his heresy was. It's far more likely this was a reference to his Christological beliefs than anything else, given that from what I can tell, that was what he was most known (and criticized) for. Perhaps they also took a dim view of his chiliasm, but to use the Council as evidence of chiliasm condemnation is simply reading assumptions into the text.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              If you can get the major search engines on board, you can control things pretty well. China's internet is pretty well locked down, for example, and Google is pretty adept at burying sources they don't like, as has been shown here before.
                              Both the UK Govt and the NZ Govt are looking at even blocking things like Facebook if they allow people to post "extremist content" the problem is that whilst there are somethings we would all agree are extremist, there are other things where it's just a rugby player quoting the Bible.
                              "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
                              -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

                              Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                              1 Corinthians 16:13

                              "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                              -Ben Witherington III

                              Comment

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