Announcement

Collapse

Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Replacement theology

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by seanD View Post
    Well, yeah, and this was the same reason their enemies had thousands of years ago when the covenant to Abraham was made up to 70 CE. Why is it continuing as it did thousands of years ago?
    Why is what continuing as it did thousands of years ago? Not all the promised land being reinstated, or the neighbours wanting to wipe it out?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by seanD View Post
      But the earthly covenant (which included land) promised to Abraham and his descendants was vowed to be forever. So I don't see how you can avoid arguing that the church is spiritual replacement of the earthly covenant.
      One might argue on the basis that "olam" doesn't exactly mean "forever" so much as it does "indefinitely" or "in perpetuity".
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Paprika View Post
        The (Mosaic) convenant with Israel =/= the covenant with Abraham.
        I wasn't referring to the Mosaic covenant.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by seanD View Post
          But the earthly covenant (which included land) promised to Abraham and his descendants was vowed to be forever. So I don't see how you can avoid arguing that the church is spiritual replacement of the earthly covenant.
          I concur with Paprika in noting that the Mosaic covenant was not equivalent and did not replace the covenant(s) with Abraham. In a separate discussion on the land promises, one could glean which promises were recognizable as promises to the 'seed' (who is Christ) and which were for the physical descendants of Abraham.

          Paul shows that the inheritance was through Christ -- the promise was to Abraham and his seed, who is Christ. This is the point made in Galatians.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            I wasn't referring to the Mosaic covenant.
            All right then. So what's the problem?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              One might argue on the basis that "olam" doesn't exactly mean "forever" so much as it does "indefinitely" or "in perpetuity".
              I've never found the equivocation of single words to be a convincing argument one way or the other. I'm sure if I researched it I could make a strong case supporting the argument that it does mean forever.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig
                Not sure what identifying the 144,000 as Jews has to do with "replacement theology."
                Identifying them as gentiles has to do with replacement theology

                Originally posted by Sean
                Then what is the purpose of the reinstatement of the nation Israel, land specifically part of the earthly covenant given to Abraham and his descendants,
                None

                and why does Israel play such a pivotal role in global geopolitics today?
                Because not enough people believe in replacement theology

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by seanD View Post
                  I've never found the equivocation of single words to be a convincing argument one way or the other. I'm sure if I researched it I could make a strong case supporting the argument that it does mean forever.
                  That the land belonged "olam" doesn't mean that at every point of time the land would belong (cf. the exile).

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                    I concur with Paprika in noting that the Mosaic covenant was not equivalent and did not replace the covenant(s) with Abraham. In a separate discussion on the land promises, one could glean which promises were recognizable as promises to the 'seed' (who is Christ) and which were for the physical descendants of Abraham.

                    Paul shows that the inheritance was through Christ -- the promise was to Abraham and his seed, who is Christ. This is the point made in Galatians.
                    The land and seed promises were given concurrently.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SeanD
                      But the earthly covenant (which included land) promised to Abraham and his descendants was vowed to be forever. So I don't see how you can avoid arguing that the church is spiritual replacement of the earthly covenant.
                      As Bad Pig said, one day Christians will own all the land.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                        As Bad Pig said, one day Christians will own all the land.
                        But this is where I disagree with mikewhitney. The old covenant wasn't "completed" in the first century. It has been replaced with a new covenant, but counted by God as a continuation of the Abrahamic promise, thus replacement theology is an accurate term.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seanD View Post
                          But this is where I disagree with mikewhitney. The old covenant wasn't "completed" in the first century. It has been replaced with a new covenant, but counted by God as a continuation of the Abrahamic promise, thus replacement theology is an accurate term.
                          Then you're using "replacement theology" to mean something other than what has been discussed in the OP and subsequent posts.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by seanD View Post
                            I've never found the equivocation of single words to be a convincing argument one way or the other. I'm sure if I researched it I could make a strong case supporting the argument that it does mean forever.
                            I'm not making this argument, for the record, just guessing how people might dispute it in answer to your question.

                            There are some cases in the OT where it clearly can't mean "forever" (i.e. when referring to how long a slave would be bound to his master), but I'm not a Hebrew expert and there very well could be contextual or grammatical reasons why it would have to here.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                              Then you're using "replacement theology" to mean something other than what has been discussed in the OP and subsequent posts.
                              I was addressing mikewhitney's post. It seems a bit more general about the subject than what the OP was addressing.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                                I'm not making this argument, for the record, just guessing how people might dispute it in answer to your question.

                                There are some cases in the OT where it clearly can't mean "forever" (i.e. when referring to how long a slave would be bound to his master), but I'm not a Hebrew expert and there very well could be contextual or grammatical reasons why it would have to here.
                                Exactly. It's used both ways.

                                Comment

                                widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                                Working...
                                X