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This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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No, Trump is not the "antichrist"

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  • #16
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    It’s all setting up for the one who will bring a false peace to the world. When there’s peace in Israel, then start paying attention.

    As a futurist, I believe the church will be removed before the Antichrist comes on the scene. So I’m not concerned about who the Antichrist is. I'm just expecting the Rapture any time now.
    Well, personally. I believe we're in the second seal of Rev 6:3-4, so obviously not only do I believe there will be no peace anytime soon, but things are going escalate to such an imaginable level, that most Christians (even unbelievers) that don't believe we're in the last days will be forced to come to terms with that.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by seanD View Post

      Well, personally. I believe we're in the second seal of Rev 6:3-4, so obviously not only do I believe there will be no peace anytime soon, but things are going escalate to such an imaginable level, that most Christians (even unbelievers) that don't believe we're in the last days will be forced to come to terms with that.
      Oh, I believe we're in the last days. And that we've been here since the Lord ascended.


      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by mossrose View Post

        Oh, I believe we're in the last days. And that we've been here since the Lord ascended.
        That's actually a good point, and I affirm that. Since I believe the first seal of Rev 6 represents Christ and the church, we've basically been conquering for 2,000 years since that time. And now that the consummation of that has been fully realized (Matthew 24:14), we're now heading into the second seal, which is total global conflict.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by seanD View Post

          Well, personally. I believe we're in the second seal of Rev 6:3-4, so obviously not only do I believe there will be no peace anytime soon, but things are going escalate to such an imaginable level, that most Christians (even unbelievers) that don't believe we're in the last days will be forced to come to terms with that.
          I haven't really studied end times so I'm not going to comment on where we are on the end times calendar. I have to agree that things are going to escalate to an unimaginable level.
          Last edited by Thoughtful Monk; 01-27-2024, 02:21 PM. Reason: Inserted word not which totally changes the sentence
          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

            I haven't really studied end times so I'm not going to comment on where we are on the end times calendar. I have to agree that things are going to escalate to an unimaginable level.
            You said it much better than I did.

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            • #21
              I was thinking about this thread this morning in sort of a loose fashion...

              It's hard to imagine any one person in our fractured climate convincing a high percentage of people to follow. Through supernatural deception, there are possibilities, but I would have to think that this would make it fairly obvious who a likely candidate would be when the time comes.

              Trump has had eight years hogging the spotlight to win people over and hasn't. I do think there could be supernatural influence in just how many Christians have been won over to him in almost cult-like fashion, especially because of embraces of his personality flaws instead of supporting him despite them, and dismissing even mild criticism of him as "derangement syndrome". But this sort of thing can happen with any leader, not just him...
              Last edited by KingsGambit; 01-28-2024, 11:55 AM.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #22
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I was thinking about this thread this morning in sort of a loose fashion...

                It's hard to imagine any one person in our fractured climate convincing a high percentage of people to follow. Through supernatural deception, there are possibilities, but I would have to think that this would make it fairly obvious who a likely candidate would be when the time comes.

                Trump has had eight years hogging the spotlight to win people over and hasn't. I do think there could be supernatural influence in just how many Christians have been won over to him in almost cult-like fashion, especially because of embraces of his personality flaws instead of supporting him despite them, and dismissing even mild criticism of him as "derangement syndrome". But this sort of thing can happen with any leader, not just him...
                Similar to what I think. I am a little disappointed at the number of Christians that have made support of Trump part of their beliefs. While I should support the political process, I am not expecting any party or politician to bring in the Kingdom of God. Part of it may be a result of how the Democratic party has gone to positions that most moderate to conversative Christians can't support. They just don't have anywhere else to go.

                Trump does seem to be an example of how even the elect may be deceived. Matthew 24:24.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  I was thinking about this thread this morning in sort of a loose fashion...

                  It's hard to imagine any one person in our fractured climate convincing a high percentage of people to follow. Through supernatural deception, there are possibilities, but I would have to think that this would make it fairly obvious who a likely candidate would be when the time comes.

                  Trump has had eight years hogging the spotlight to win people over and hasn't. I do think there could be supernatural influence in just how many Christians have been won over to him in almost cult-like fashion, especially because of embraces of his personality flaws instead of supporting him despite them, and dismissing even mild criticism of him as "derangement syndrome". But this sort of thing can happen with any leader, not just him...
                  Though there is definitely a Trump cult that absolutely adore him, they are a very tiny minority. Most of those on the right who support and defend Trump do so as an antithetical action against the left. That doesn't seem to be enough to describe the type of "worship" Rev 13 is conveying. Moreover, the interpretive description in Rev 17 also doesn't even support one individual; it seems to be global consortium of some sort.

                  Perhaps one could argue the second beast as an individual candidate, which seems to imply he's a fake Christian, and appears to be a type of agent of the first beast. But then it describes how he performs miracles, which seems to convey a religious figure instead of a political one.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post

                    I can kind of sort of understand Obama, being how messianic the MSM made him out to be and how mesmerized the masses were when he gave his speeches during his campaign.

                    But even still, we've got to stop this "antichrist" mislabeling, particularly since it's not only hurting Christianity and diluting eschatology, but the descriptive interpretation given to us in Rev 13 & 17 pretty much excludes most people that have been labelled antichrist.
                    This statement illustrates the common misunderstanding of what the Antichrist actually is. Revelation 13 & 17 have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Antichrist. The Beasts were representations of kingdoms in this world as scripture presents them (Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek, and Roman).

                    Only in 1 & 2 John do we specifically have the description of what an antichrist is. There were many in John's days, coming out from among those to whom John was writing. As John defined an antichrist, these earned that title by denying the Father and the Son, and they denied that Jesus had already come in the flesh as Daniel's prophesied Messiah / the Christ. That is ALL that makes an antichrist, or a "false christ" as Jesus mentioned in Matt. 24, who would come saying "I am Christ". In other words, the "false christs" would claim to be Daniel 9:25's Messiah the Prince that was prophesied to come in AD 30 at the end of the 69th week of that prophecy.

                    The single Antichrist / "Man of Lawlessness" who would arise from among the many antichrists in John's days would "exalt himself" - NOT that this personal self-aggrandizement would actually succeed in causing the entire world to worship him.

                    The author of this book above about the 4th beast has no clue at all about how to interpret Revelation. He's making a quick buck with screwed-up sensationalism that has nothing to do with the proper interpretation of these things.

                    But I agree with you, seanD, that we really have to stop this "antichrist" mislabeling. This was a phenomenon pointing to a particular first-century individual Antichrist that has been long dead since AD 66 - both he and his restrainer, who Paul said were both alive in his days in 2 Thess. 2.

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