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The "Some of those standing here who will not taste death" issue

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  • The "Some of those standing here who will not taste death" issue

    Was Jesus wrong when he predicted some would still be alive when he returns?

    I'll give you my solution. I'm going to focus on Luke and Matthew since they seem to be drawing from the same tradition, unless this was just two different but similar teaching quotes that Jesus said at two different times, which is also possible (from the NASB)...

    Matthew 16:27-28:
    For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every person according to his deeds.

    “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
    Luke 9:26-27:
    For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and the glory of the Father and the holy angels.

    But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”
    The preterist argument is that both sentences is referring to the 70 AD war, and so it wasn't impossible that there were still some alive when this event happened even though it was 40 years after it was said.

    There's a problem with that. How does the last sentence in Matthew (bolded) fit into that scenario? KJV translates it "reward" and that would seem to be the fitting Greek word. It also fits better within the context of Jesus's followers "taking up their cross" and sacrificing themselves towards his cause. In regards to Luke, what does being ashamed of Christ have to do with the war and the destruction of Jerusalem? The entire context of both doesn't work with the 70 AD war and is much more fitting as a final judgement.

    IMO, the best explanation seems to be that the sentences are different and Jesus is speaking about two different things. In the first sentence, Jesus is referring to judgement upon his return; specifically the rewards that are given to the church after he gathers it. I believe this is also connected to the OD (i.e. Matthew 24:30-31 and Matthew ch.25).

    In the second sentence, he's referring to something else. I believe it's possible the peterist interpretation is correct here and that he's referring to the war.

    However, I think a much better interpretation is Jesus' ascension. During his trial before the Sanhedrin, all three gospels makes it pretty undeniable -- "You will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand" -- Jesus is referring specifically to this event.

    What's especially interesting is that Matthew 26:64 and Mark -- "coming on the clouds" -- makes it clear he's citing the highly ambiguous passage in Daniel 7:13 (notice this is what really sets off the high priest since he understood perfectly the significance of that passage and what it implied), which I believe was also a past prophecy of Christ's ascension (The divine Son of Man -- bar enash). That passage in Daniel, btw, has stumped scholars abroad, both Jewish and secular, about it's meaning.

    To summarize:
    First sentence = Jesus' return.
    Second sentence = Jesus' ascension.
    Last edited by seanD; 06-22-2022, 04:54 PM.
    "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

  • #2
    Please ignore my atrocious grammar in the OP.
    "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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    • #3

      Matthew 16:27-28:


      For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every person according to his deeds.

      “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”


      Luke 9:26-27:


      For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and the glory of the Father and the holy angels.

      But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”


      The first question is, at what point do these texts connect with Christ's return in the end times?


      1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
      Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      "It is not divine truth that makes the man seem more innocent in what is equally sinful, but human wrong-headedness." AUGUSTINE: re adultery

      "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tabibito View Post

        Matthew 16:27-28:


        For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every person according to his deeds.

        “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”


        Luke 9:26-27:


        For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and the glory of the Father and the holy angels.

        But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”


        The first question is, at what point do these texts connect with Christ's return in the end times?

        For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels
        when He comes in His glory and the glory of the Father and the holy angels
        Seems pretty clear to me.

        And, again, if you have a problem with literalism, it's in the context of Jesus describing sacrificing oneself for his cause in this life, and the rewards that follow for that act. I don't see how the 70 AD war fits that context.
        "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

        Comment


        • #5
          I should also note that the preterist might be able to get away with assuming some of his listeners would make it another 40 years after Matthew 16:27-28 and Luke 9:26-27, but this isn't at all probable in the exchange Jesus had with Caiaphas during the trial.

          Assuming members of the Sanhedrin (including the High Priest who was probably 50 or older) could have lasted another 40 years is extremely implausible, if not downright impossible. Therefore, I link what he said during the trial as being the same thing he said in Matthew 16:27-28 and Luke 9:26-27 -- a reference to his ascension.

          His resurrection was pretty solid proof to his followers that he was God's servant. But once they saw his ascension, they all knew this emphatically fulfilled the Son of Man "coming on the clouds" predicted in Daniel 7:13-14 that he laid claim at his trial and elsewhere. I would say that event would have been a pretty definitive statement of Jesus' power and glory to them.
          "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

          Comment


          • #6
            <wrong thread>
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            • #7
              Originally posted by seanD View Post

              I don't see how the 70 AD war fits that context.
              On that, it doesn't.
              1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
              Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              "It is not divine truth that makes the man seem more innocent in what is equally sinful, but human wrong-headedness." AUGUSTINE: re adultery

              "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                On that, it doesn't.
                If you don't believe those passages are Jesus' second return or the 70 AD war, how do you interpret those passages?
                "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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