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Russia, the king of the North, the Bear

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  • Russia, the king of the North, the Bear

    In the Bible, Russia is the king of the North (North of Israel) also understood to represent the Bear. I heard such an interesting observation on one of the Christian channels, that an injured bear is far more dangerous than one that is not. Putin is injured I think. The Ezekiel 38 war could well be on its way.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Esther View Post
    In the Bible, Russia is the king of the North (North of Israel) also understood to represent the Bear. I heard such an interesting observation on one of the Christian channels, that an injured bear is far more dangerous than one that is not. Putin is injured I think. The Ezekiel 38 war could well be on its way.
    Did the authors indicate that meant Russia or is that something we concluded today?

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Did the authors indicate that meant Russia or is that something we concluded today?
      Do you mean does the Bible make it clear Russia is the king of the North and the Bear? Or is it a modern day interpretation?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Did the authors indicate that meant Russia or is that something we concluded today?
        I've been hearing that interpretation for decades. Wonder if the interpretation occurs prior to the Cold War?
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Esther View Post

          Do you mean does the Bible make it clear Russia is the king of the North and the Bear? Or is it a modern day interpretation?
          Yes.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

            I've been hearing that interpretation for decades. Wonder if the interpretation occurs prior to the Cold War?
            Particularly if that association goes back to roughly the 6th cent. B.C.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Here is a link to gotquestions which I find concise. I have always taken for granted Russia is the king of the North in the Bible and the Bear.

              https://www.gotquestions.org/Russia-end-times.html

              It is the injured bear theory I heard in the past few days that I am finding interesting.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Particularly if that association goes back to roughly the 6th cent. B.C.
                Seems not. Medieval times, starting with cartographers then adopted by cartoonists. Russia didn't actually adopt the bear as symbolic of anything to do with the nation until 1980.
                1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                "It is not divine truth that makes the man seem more innocent in what is equally sinful, but human wrong-headedness." AUGUSTINE: re adultery

                "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Esther View Post
                  Here is a link to gotquestions which I find concise. I have always taken for granted Russia is the king of the North in the Bible and the Bear.

                  https://www.gotquestions.org/Russia-end-times.html

                  It is the injured bear theory I heard in the past few days that I am finding interesting.
                  Interesting since Russia comes from "Rus" (rhymes with Bruce), the name of a group of Norse people, from which a group of warrior merchants took control of a large section of eastern Europe establishing their first capital in Kyiv (Ukraine), and started what was considered the first Eastern Slavic state. There does not seem much of a connection with the Hebrew word "Rosh" which means the top or beginning and Rus.

                  This is one of the few times I have to question gotquestions analysis.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Esther View Post
                    In the Bible, Russia is the king of the North (North of Israel) also understood to represent the Bear. I heard such an interesting observation on one of the Christian channels, that an injured bear is far more dangerous than one that is not. Putin is injured I think. The Ezekiel 38 war could well be on its way.
                    It is certainly true an injured animal is more dangerous.
                    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There is some plausibility about the identification with Russia, at least. Josephus (a few centuries later than Ezekiel, but this is at least more useful than speculating what might be north of Israel) argued that Magog was associated with the Scythians, whose traditional territory did in fact include parts what is now Russia and Ukraine. However, the focus of the prophecy is an attack on Israel, not one to the west, so I would be skeptical unless the course of the war rapidly changes.

                      https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/a...-gog-and-magog
                      Last edited by KingsGambit; 05-11-2022, 07:48 PM.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        There is some plausibility about the identification with Russia, at least. Josephus (a few centuries later than Ezekiel, but this is at least more useful than speculating what might be north of Israel) argued that Magog was associated with the Scythians, whose traditional territory did in fact include parts what is now Russia and Ukraine. However, the focus of the prophecy is an attack on Israel, not one to the west, so I would be skeptical unless the course of the war rapidly changes.

                        https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/a...-gog-and-magog
                        Thanks!

                        One of the prophecy teachings mentioned that it never used to make sense why Russia would go to war with Israel until 10 years ago when Israel discovered vast amounts of natural gas.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Esther View Post

                          Thanks!

                          One of the prophecy teachings mentioned that it never used to make sense why Russia would go to war with Israel until 10 years ago when Israel discovered vast amounts of natural gas.
                          It would make sense for Russia to go to war with Israel in support of their allies in region like Syria.
                          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Ezekiel 38 battle led by the chief prince of Gog has long been over ever since AD 69-70. Gog is a reference to the nation of ISRAEL in Numbers 24:7-9 in the LXX. At any rate, we are told that in the battle of Gog against Israel, it would be characterized by a struggle when "every man's sword shall be against HIS BROTHER." (Ezekiel 39:21). Now, if Gog was going to come against Israel, and that battle would have BROTHERS engaged in fighting each other with swords, this was going to be a CIVIL WAR in Israel.

                            This CIVIL conflict in Israel took place from AD 66-70 between the various Zealot leaders that were trying to gain supremacy as the Messianic leader of the nation of Israel in Jerusalem. In AD 69, the Zealot leader, Simon bar Giora, who had the most numerous army of 40,000 among all the other Zealot contenders for the Messianic role, came and camped with his army outside the gates of Jerusalem. Simon bar Giora was eventually admitted into the city in AD 69 in the hopes that he would be the most promising leader to combat the approaching Roman army. He became a tyrant to his own people, and his army was decimated at the end by the Romans, with Simon the self-styled "King of Israel" being executed for his role in the rebellion against Rome.

                            The "chief prince of Gog" was prophesied to come out of his place in the "north parts". That "North part" was the northern quarter of the nation of ISRAEL - meaning Galilee of the Gentiles. And that location was actually the hotbed that the Zealot cause originated from. Simon bar Giora kept an arsenal of weaponry and supplies in caves near the city of Nain near Galilee until he was ready to come out of his place in those "North parts" to Jerusalem. He came with an army that was large enough to overcome all other Zealot leaders competing for the role of a military Messiah that would conquer Roman control of their nation.

                            The Gog battle featured ancient weaponry - not modern-day missiles. Horses, shields, bucklers, bows and arrows, hand-staves, spears, etc. Any wood-based weapons left from this ancient battle were going to be used for people's firewood for seven years following this battle in Israel, since Josephus said that the AD 66-70 conflict at Jerusalem had every tree cut down for 10 miles around the city to use in the battle to take that city of Jerusalem. Any trees used to build the siege wall that the Romans built to completely encircle the city would have been used for firewood after those days.

                            And it took seven literal months to bury all the dead human remains from that AD 66-70 war in Israel, with all of those recovered remains being buried in the Jordan Valley at the top of the Dead Sea, as Ezekiel 39:11 had prophesied.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Uh oh, 3 Resurrections broke out of Arkham Asylum again. That's my bat signal to come restore some sanity into the thread.

                              Most preterists have a problem seeing past one layer of prophecy into the multiple layers that exist, but 3 Resurrections can't even comprehend basic English. Galilee is not "a nation from the far north" and "Persia, Cush and Phut" were not allies of some Jewish rebel. That's why uppity women should stay out of theological debates and stick to the kitchen like the Bible commands them to. Read Proverbs 31 for your marching orders, 3 Resurrections, and leave the teaching to your superiors (men [in authority, not value]).

                              I detail who Gog is here.

                              Like Pharaoh, Caesar and "the ruler who will come", Gog is a title that can be inherited and so pulls double, triple, etc. duty, prophetically speaking. Antiochus Epiphanes was the first "ruler who will come" who pulled off the first abomination that caused desolation. There will be another.

                              The first giant claiming to be the deified ruler of Chaos incarnate was Nimrod, but the title eventually passed to Og, king of Bashan. Presumably they laid claim to this title as being the offspring of beings who were present when God brought order out of chaos at creation:

                              Scripture Verse: Job 38

                              1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:

                              2“Who is this who obscures My counsel

                              by words without knowledge?a

                              3Now brace yourselfb like a man;

                              I will question you, and you shall inform Me.c

                              4Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?

                              Tell Me, if you have understanding.

                              5Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know!

                              Or who stretched a measuring line across it?

                              6On what were its foundations set,

                              or who laid its cornerstone,d

                              7while the morning stars sang together

                              and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


                              8Who enclosed the sea behind doors

                              when it burst forth from the womb,

                              9when I made the clouds its garment

                              and thick darkness its blanket,

                              10when I fixed its boundaries

                              and set in place its bars and doors,

                              11and I declared: ‘You may come this far, but no farther;

                              here your proud waves must stop’?

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              As mentioned in my post that I linked to, "the sea" is an allusion to primeval chaos in not only the Bible but the creation motifs of the cultures which surrounded Israel. That's why God calls "the sea" "proud" in verse 11. He's not talking about just water.

                              At any rate, it wouldn't have required much of a leap for the fallen angels who sired the Nephilim giants to claim that not only were they present at the creation of the earth but that they assisted and even played an integral role. Bashan, the site of Og's kingdom, was at the foot of Mt Hermon, which possesses a spring considered by the ancients to have its source in the primeval waters of the underworld. It is one of the primary tributaries of the Jordan river. It's not a coincidence that Mt Hermon is traditionally associated with the site the fallen angels "materialized" into the physical dimension to take human wives.

                              Though Og was "the last of the Rephaim", other giants--of smaller stature and so perhaps of more diluted "Nephilim blood"--are detailed in Scripture as having existed after him, most infamously Goliath. The Nephilim blood was never completely eradicated (part of the point of God's "genocidal" policies in the OT) and some tribes had higher concentrations (Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Cretans/Philistines, etc.) than others. Indeed, Daniel prophesies that in the last days, "they" will successfully intermingle their bloodline with regular folk (not appearing as freakish giants) while still remaining genetically distinct:

                              Scripture Verse: Daniel 2

                              43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              Russia and China are not only "north" of Israel but "east". Cain went east of Eden after he killed Abel and he was the first of the Nephilim, though he was too dimwitted to organize the mass rebellion against God that his later descendant Nimrod managed. China is even named after Cain and their totem is the dragon. Nimrod refounded the cities of Cain and his seed after the Flood in homage.

                              The Russians (and Chinese) ultimately descend from the Scythians who descend from the Assyrians/Babylonians, so their military alliance possesses a lot of "Gog" blood, hence their inheritance of the first fulfillment of the "Gog" prophecy to kick off the end times. Later, the Antichrist will be an iteration of Gog and finally it will be the beast.

                              But the "Israel" that the Russian/Chinese "Gog" (and its "Persian" [Iranian] and "Cushite" [Islamic African/Yemenite nations] allies) attacks is primarily Ephraim/the West/America, not Judah/modern day Israel. Modern day Israel is certainly not a "nation without walls dwelling in safety", but rather a nation living under constant threat of annihilation with plenty of walls. America, on the other hand, is a nation of fat and happy "Christians" who think God is just fine with their backsliding and/or they'll be "raptured out" before they ever have to act like Christians and prove their faith. They also descend from Israel.

                              As for 3 Resurrection's claim that "brother against brother" implies a civil war, in one sense she is correct, but as usual she grossly misses the bigger picture. America is already in a cold civil war which if it goes hot will contribute to its susceptibility to outside invasion. But more importantly, the system resulting from the "new world order" which will emerge after World War 3 and the fall of America will result in a worldwide society where people will either sell their soul to the beast system or declare for the truth and Jesus Christ and be "betrayed unto death" by their own brothers:

                              Scripture Verse: Mark 13

                              12 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

                              © Copyright Original Source

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