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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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Why it's important to look for signs of the last days

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  • #31
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Moreover these signs are things that happen all of the time. When is there not a time when "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom"? And while famines are decreasing (today most are man-made), like earthquakes in various places, they aren't rare enough occurrences to be very useful.
    Just as in the days of Noah - business as usual until the hammer drops. There won't be any apparent change in the way the world functions.
    1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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    • #32
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      First read Matthew 24:29: nothing spoken of there has happened, and understanding from astronomy confirms that there will indeed come a time when the moon ceases to give its light (as viewed from Earth.)

      We have not seen the advent of the two witnesses (Rev 11), nor (arguably) have we seen the gospel promulgated throughout the world.

      There has been no "great falling away," (2 Thess 2) because there has been no great adherence to fall away from.

      There will be signs pointing to Christ's return - they are not in evidence yet.
      All of that involves one's interpretation of the way things play out - rapture, second coming, millennial reign... Many believe there is nothing additional that needs to happen before Christ receives His Church.

      This, however, is one of those topics that divides Christians, so I don't get dragged into that. I just plan on staying ready.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        All of that involves one's interpretation of the way things play out - rapture, second coming, millennial reign... Many believe there is nothing additional that needs to happen before Christ receives His Church.

        This, however, is one of those topics that divides Christians, so I don't get dragged into that. I just plan on staying ready.
        If the master returns suddenly and unexpectedly, and finds his servants doing what they should, all is well for those servants.
        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          Nothing I see indicates that it will happen during our lifetimes. But as you have said - the idea is that we live as though Jesus will return sometime during the next five minutes ... and I add ... that we should be building as though he will not be returning anytime during the next ten millenia.
          People who add to Scripture are cursed in Scripture and it so happens that it says neither of the things you said here. Assuming you wouldn't know that, though, as it's a safe bet that people who pretend they stick their heads in the sand for holy reasons typically haven't even read the Bible once through, let alone hunger and thirst for righteousness.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            Just as in the days of Noah - business as usual until the hammer drops. There won't be any apparent change in the way the world functions.
            You added again. Given the cataclysmic nature of the Flood, changes to the environment would have been readily apparent for years (perhaps decades) up to the day the torrents of rain began and the water pumped up from the abyss. But since neither of those things had ever happened, people felt comfortable living as normal up until the day they did.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              All of that involves one's interpretation of the way things play out - rapture, second coming, millennial reign... Many believe there is nothing additional that needs to happen before Christ receives His Church.

              This, however, is one of those topics that divides Christians, so I don't get dragged into that. I just plan on staying ready.
              Scripture Verse: Matthew 10

              34 Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

              ‘a man against his father,

              a daughter against her mother,

              a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

              36 A man’s enemies will be the members

              of his own household.’

              © Copyright Original Source



              The Bible makes it clear many times over that "the way of the Lord" must be prepared. The notion that He will show up randomly with nowhere to "lay His head" because His people are living in rampant disobedience and "fix all the evil" is a pipe dream born of that disobedience.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                If the master returns suddenly and unexpectedly, and finds his servants doing what they should, all is well for those servants.
                And, I don't think anybody has brought out this very deep theological eschatological point...

                If you really believe Jesus could return any moment - eat dessert first!
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Darfius View Post

                  Scripture Verse: Matthew 10

                  34 Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

                  ‘a man against his father,

                  a daughter against her mother,

                  a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

                  36 A man’s enemies will be the members

                  of his own household.’

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  The Bible makes it clear many times over that "the way of the Lord" must be prepared. The notion that He will show up randomly with nowhere to "lay His head" because His people are living in rampant disobedience and "fix all the evil" is a pipe dream born of that disobedience.
                  Thank you ever so much for this post that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said or believe, or to the Scripture you ripped out of context.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Thank you ever so much for this post that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said or believe, or to the Scripture you ripped out of context.
                    The Scripture was about the "division" nonsense that pretend Christians harp on about when they'd rather conform to the world than discuss and conform to truth. What does Christ have to do with Belial? The second part, since you appear to require connected dots, was about the "any moment" nonsense that pretend Christians harp on about when they call lip service faith rather than obedience, which obedience requires Christians to "flee from Babylon" literally and spiritually and regather to Israel to rebuild the temple and live in accordance with God's eternal law.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Darfius View Post

                      People who add to Scripture are cursed in Scripture and it so happens that it says neither of the things you said here. Assuming you wouldn't know that, though, as it's a safe bet that people who pretend they stick their heads in the sand for holy reasons typically haven't even read the Bible once through, let alone hunger and thirst for righteousness.
                      So - according to your interpretation of scripture, you are under a curse. There is nothing in scripture to indicate that the canon is closed.
                      1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                        So - according to your interpretation of scripture, you are under a curse. There is nothing in scripture to indicate that the canon is closed.
                        So your idiotic and disproven guesses are to the level of canon now?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Darfius View Post

                          The Scripture was about the "division" nonsense that pretend Christians harp on about when they'd rather conform to the world than discuss and conform to truth. What does Christ have to do with Belial? The second part, since you appear to require connected dots, was about the "any moment" nonsense that pretend Christians harp on about when they call lip service faith rather than obedience, which obedience requires Christians to "flee from Babylon" literally and spiritually and regather to Israel to rebuild the temple and live in accordance with God's eternal law.
                          Ah, you're one of those contentious dividers who determines who "real Christians" and "pretend Christians" are. Paul warned us about you.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                            First read Matthew 24:29: nothing spoken of there has happened, and understanding from astronomy confirms that there will indeed come a time when the moon ceases to give its light (as viewed from Earth.)

                            We have not seen the advent of the two witnesses (Rev 11), nor (arguably) have we seen the gospel promulgated throughout the world.

                            There has been no "great falling away," (2 Thess 2) because there has been no great adherence to fall away from.

                            There will be signs pointing to Christ's return - they are not in evidence yet.
                            The thread is specifically about why looking for signs of the last days is scriptural, not a debate on whether or not we are in the last days.
                            "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post

                              The thread is specifically about why looking for signs of the last days is scriptural, not a debate on whether or not we are in the last days.
                              Agree. Jesus gave many instructions about what to do when the signs of Matthew 24 and Luke 21 take place. Matthew 24's key is Jesus' words of when you see all these things taking place at one time. Then no more birth pains, but the actual coming of the Lord.

                              Throughout history the signs in Jesus' list have been occurring in isolated instances (birth pains) but never before has the world been bombarded with them all happening at once like they are today.

                              120 years ago there were horse drawn wagons. Today we have self driving cars. The knowledge explosion in just the last 120 years! Before then it was mostly business as usual from the beginning of the world.

                              Today more than ever we have a generation of people described in 2 Timothy 3:

                              “Difficult Times Will Come”


                              3 But understand this, that in the last days dangerous times [of great stress and trouble] will come [difficult days that will be hard to bear]. 2 For people will be lovers of self [narcissistic, self-focused], lovers of money [impelled by greed], boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane, 3 [and they will be] unloving [devoid of natural human affection, calloused and inhumane], irreconcilable, malicious gossips, devoid of self-control [intemperate, immoral], brutal, haters of good, 4 traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of [sensual] pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of [outward] godliness (religion), although they have denied its power [for their conduct nullifies their claim of faith].

                              The statue in Daniel has a finite amount of kingdoms.


                              We are told to watch and be on guard.

                              Acts 2 the day of Pentecost 2000 odd years ago kicked off the beginning of the last days prophesied in the book of Joel.

                              The Lord can cut his days short in righteousness. I have experienced this as battling to fit everything I need to do in a day. The days seem so much shorter somehow. I used to be able to fit in a whole lot more into a day even 5 years ago.

                              I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is going to come on the clouds of glory in our life times. Not pre-tribulation rapture as I believe we are in the tribulation now and that Christians go through the tribulation. Maranatha!





                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Esther View Post

                                Agree. Jesus gave many instructions about what to do when the signs of Matthew 24 and Luke 21 take place. Matthew 24's key is Jesus' words of when you see all these things taking place at one time. Then no more birth pains, but the actual coming of the Lord.

                                Throughout history the signs in Jesus' list have been occurring in isolated instances (birth pains) but never before has the world been bombarded with them all happening at once like they are today.

                                120 years ago there were horse drawn wagons. Today we have self driving cars. The knowledge explosion in just the last 120 years! Before then it was mostly business as usual from the beginning of the world.

                                Today more than ever we have a generation of people described in 2 Timothy 3:

                                “Difficult Times Will Come”


                                3 But understand this, that in the last days dangerous times [of great stress and trouble] will come [difficult days that will be hard to bear]. 2 For people will be lovers of self [narcissistic, self-focused], lovers of money [impelled by greed], boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane, 3 [and they will be] unloving [devoid of natural human affection, calloused and inhumane], irreconcilable, malicious gossips, devoid of self-control [intemperate, immoral], brutal, haters of good, 4 traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of [sensual] pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of [outward] godliness (religion), although they have denied its power [for their conduct nullifies their claim of faith].

                                The statue in Daniel has a finite amount of kingdoms.


                                We are told to watch and be on guard.

                                Acts 2 the day of Pentecost 2000 odd years ago kicked off the beginning of the last days prophesied in the book of Joel.

                                The Lord can cut his days short in righteousness. I have experienced this as battling to fit everything I need to do in a day. The days seem so much shorter somehow. I used to be able to fit in a whole lot more into a day even 5 years ago.

                                I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is going to come on the clouds of glory in our life times. Not pre-tribulation rapture as I believe we are in the tribulation now and that Christians go through the tribulation. Maranatha!




                                Good point, I forgot about Mark 13:33-37. There's no ambiguity about it in Mark; we're literally told to "watch." We don't know the specific day or hour, but as he stated just prior (v.28-29) "when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door." That's pretty much open and shut and I don't see how anyone can dispute that.
                                "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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