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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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Why it's important to look for signs of the last days

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  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    I tend to think that it's specifically referring to the prophesies in the "scroll" comprising what we call the Book of Revelation (Or "the Revelation of Jesus Christ to Saint John the Divine ).

    Darby - *I* testify to every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any one shall add to these things, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book.


    I think it can GENERALLY be applied to the canon, but more specifically to The Revelation.
    That is an alternative that I count viable. It doesn't seem that the Koine Greek would be ambiguous on the point, but it would take a very advanced student of the language to know which it is with certainty.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    My knowledge of Koine Greek doesn't extend far enough to allow certitude - but yours seems a reasonable reading. What is not reasonable is pretending that "this book" extends to all the 66 (or so) books of the Bible.
    I think you must first consider the Bible to be one book rather than a collection of separate ones. Likewise you need to project onto the author an understanding of a sacred corpus of Christian writings that probably didn't exist at that point (although there are indication it was starting as seen in II Peter 3:15-16). Still, at the time that John was penned, there was no New Testament and wouldn't be one for a few generations. So yeah, it is rather presumptuous to assume John was referring to say Matthew, Acts, or any other work of the NT outside of Revelation itself.

    IOW, Darius is engaging in precisely the sort of adding to Scripture that he accuses others of doing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    My knowledge of Koine Greek doesn't extend far enough to allow certitude - but yours seems a reasonable reading. What is not reasonable is pretending that "this book" extends to all the 66 (or so) books of the Bible.
    I tend to think that it's specifically referring to the prophesies in the "scroll" comprising what we call the Book of Revelation (Or "the Revelation of Jesus Christ to Saint John the Divine ).

    Darby - *I* testify to every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any one shall add to these things, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book.


    I think it can GENERALLY be applied to the canon, but more specifically to The Revelation.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Where do you find that? The closest that I recall is at the end of Revelation where we are told that those who adds (or takes away) from anything in Revelation will be cursed

    Scripture Verse: Revelation 22:18-19

    I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

    © Copyright Original Source

    My knowledge of Koine Greek doesn't extend far enough to allow certitude - but yours seems a reasonable reading. What is not reasonable is pretending that "this book" extends to all the 66 (or so) books of the Bible, or to any more than one book. The doubt arises because I can't tell whether "this book" refers to the book or revelation, or whether "this book" already exists when the words are spoken (the book of Revelation had not yet been written.)
    Last edited by tabibito; 10-18-2021, 09:42 AM.

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Persons who believe they have "special knowledge" don't have much patience for those of us who are actually capable of saying "I don't know" when appropriate.
    One of the simplest and most valuable phrases in the English language, but people avoid using it like the plague.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    IMHO he appears angry that folks don't acknowledge his genius in interpreting Scripture.

    Could be wrong...
    Persons who believe they have "special knowledge" don't have much patience for those of us who are actually capable of saying "I don't know" when appropriate.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    That's immediately what came to mind as a misuse of Scripture, but then the Romans 16:17-18 passage came to mind which actually addresses what he was doing.

    I haven't dealt with him much at all - is he just an angry individual?
    IMHO he appears angry that folks don't acknowledge his genius in interpreting Scripture.

    Could be wrong...

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Where do you find that? The closest that I recall is at the end of Revelation where we are told that those who adds (or takes away) from anything in Revelation will be cursed

    Scripture Verse: Revelation 22:18-19

    I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

    © Copyright Original Source

    That's immediately what came to mind as a misuse of Scripture, but then the Romans 16:17-18 passage came to mind which actually addresses what he was doing.

    I haven't dealt with him much at all - is he just an angry individual?

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Yeah, so much of the New Testament is dedicated to topics like "one body, one Lord, one Baptism", unity, being "together in one accord"... It all goes back to the precept - In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity
    What an interesting quote. I'll have to remember it and start using it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Your citation does not support the notion that Christians ought to fight with other Christians which was what was speaking against.
    Yeah, so much of the New Testament is dedicated to topics like "one body, one Lord, one Baptism", unity, being "together in one accord"... It all goes back to the precept - In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity

    Leave a comment:


  • NorrinRadd
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Where do you find that?
    Maybe he added it to Scripture.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Darfius View Post

    People who add to Scripture are cursed in Scripture and it so happens that it says neither of the things you said here.
    Where do you find that? The closest that I recall is at the end of Revelation where we are told that those who adds (or takes away) from anything in Revelation will be cursed

    Scripture Verse: Revelation 22:18-19

    I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

    © Copyright Original Source


    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Your citation does not support the notion that Christians ought to fight with other Christians which was what was speaking against.
    Darfius is a great example of why we shouldn't be overly concerned with looking for signs of the end-times and just live our lives as good Christians, doing what Jesus told us we should be doing all along.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Darfius View Post

    Scripture Verse: Matthew 10

    34 Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

    ‘a man against his father,

    a daughter against her mother,

    a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

    36 A man’s enemies will be the members

    of his own household.’

    © Copyright Original Source



    The Bible makes it clear many times over that "the way of the Lord" must be prepared. The notion that He will show up randomly with nowhere to "lay His head" because His people are living in rampant disobedience and "fix all the evil" is a pipe dream born of that disobedience.
    Your citation does not support the notion that Christians ought to fight with other Christians which was what was speaking against.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    When I was a kid my mom fell in with the Jehovah's witnesses. This was during the early to mid 70s. During one of their many, many, many false end times predictions. They constantly predicted the exact year Jesus would return, over and over. And their followers would sell houses and "prepare for the Lord's return" and end up broke and disappointed. Luckily we didn't do that. But I have seen what happens when people keep looking for signs and trying to use esoteric verses to predict when Jesus will come back. No thanks. I know he will come back some day. And I am always prepared. And I know we need to spread the gospel. But no matter when he comes back, we who belong to him will be saved. And if I die before that day, I will meet him even sooner. That's good enough for me.


    JWs 1974 "Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity?...Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." (Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3)


    Last edited by Sparko; 10-18-2021, 07:15 AM.

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