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Why it's important to look for signs of the last days

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  • #16
    Originally posted by seanD View Post
    You do it all the time in civics.
    You might note that I am much more reserved when arguing against fellow Christians than with lost people.

    You just needed an excuse to crawl out with your tail tucked because you realize you're wrong.
    I don't think I'm wrong, Sean.

    I just don't think there's a big scriptural mandate for us watching for signs, or it'd be much clearer, and in the epistles which were written after the Gospels.

    I came from a background where there was WAY too much emphasis on signs, with charts and graphs and prophesies to be fulfilled.


    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      You might note that I am much more reserved when arguing against fellow Christians than with lost people.



      I don't think I'm wrong, Sean.

      I just don't think there's a big scriptural mandate for us watching for signs, or it'd be much clearer, and in the epistles which were written after the Gospels.

      I came from a background where there was WAY too much emphasis on signs, with charts and graphs and prophesies to be fulfilled.

      Okay, I concede that I was a bit overboard when I stated "it's important." But the fact is that the Christian trope -- "We shouldn't be concerned about the last days; we should always be prepared for the Lord's return regardless" -- often thrown around is simply unscriptual. There is no scriptural basis for that argument.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by tabibito View Post
        Mat 24:6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
        Mat 24:7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
        Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

        Matthew 24 doesn't seem to hold much by way of instruction to spend time considering the end times.
        Yeah, we have plenty of things to do without getting sidetracked looking for signs. We know Jesus could come at any moment, it sure FEELS like it's getting closer, but that has happened throughout the ages.

        Like the parable Jesus told in Luke 19:13, I think we should "occupy 'til He comes".
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          Yeah, we have plenty of things to do without getting sidetracked looking for signs. We know Jesus could come at any moment, it sure FEELS like it's getting closer, but that has happened throughout the ages.

          Like the parable Jesus told in Luke 19:13, I think we should "occupy 'til He comes".
          You say you don't want to argue, and then you go and do that.

          No one is getting "sidetracked" anymore than we're getting sidetracked about any other issue, theological or otherwise, we discuss on here. It's just a discussion like everything else on a discussion board.

          So what do you make of Matthew 24:32?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            Okay, I concede that I was a bit overboard when I stated "it's important."
            That's quite a concession.

            But the fact is that the Christian trope -- "We shouldn't be concerned about the last days; we should always be prepared for the Lord's return regardless" -- often thrown around is simply unscriptual. There is no scriptural basis for that argument.
            OK, so, serious question -- have I supported that "trope"? Because I frequently bring up the point that we're missing the whole message of the "be prepared" parables. I believe we should live our lives as if we believe Jesus could return tonight.

            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              That's quite a concession.



              OK, so, serious question -- have I supported that "trope"? Because I frequently bring up the point that we're missing the whole message of the "be prepared" parables. I believe we should live our lives as if we believe Jesus could return tonight.
              And as I said in the OP, that's frequently used as a strawman because no one here is disagreeing with that. I'm certainly not.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by seanD View Post

                And as I said in the OP, that's frequently used as a strawman because no one here is disagreeing with that. I'm certainly not.
                And I'm not seeing people say

                "We shouldn't be concerned about the last days; we should always be prepared for the Lord's return regardless."


                One can do both: Be concerned AND always be prepared. The very REASON that the "Day of the Lord" or "the Return" or whatever is mentioned is so we will change our conduct NOW.

                I guess I'm not getting what you're trying to say.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  And I'm not seeing people say

                  "We shouldn't be concerned about the last days; we should always be prepared for the Lord's return regardless."


                  One can do both: Be concerned AND always be prepared. The very REASON that the "Day of the Lord" or "the Return" or whatever is mentioned is so we will change our conduct NOW.

                  I guess I'm not getting what you're trying to say.
                  We can both discuss the signs of the last days and always be prepared, I agree!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post

                    We can both discuss the signs of the last days and always be prepared, I agree!
                    And I observe that things, particularly in the US, have changed so dramatically over the past 5 or 6 years that it's hard to believe that "the prince of the power of the air" is not running things, and things, indeed, seem to be "ramping up".

                    I'm cautious, however, in that there have been periods in our country's history where others thought that same thing - like prior to and during the War of Northern Aggression.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      And I observe that things, particularly in the US, have changed so dramatically over the past 5 or 6 years that it's hard to believe that "the prince of the power of the air" is not running things, and things, indeed, seem to be "ramping up".

                      I'm cautious, however, in that there have been periods in our country's history where others thought that same thing - like prior to and during the War of Northern Aggression.
                      Though I haven't looked at every Christian false alarm in history (and I know there have been quite a few), the ones I've looked at have always set specific dates down to the day. I suspect that's the main problem, and something I'm sure we'd all agree is a no-no.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post

                        Though I haven't looked at every Christian false alarm in history (and I know there have been quite a few), the ones I've looked at have always set specific dates down to the day. I suspect that's the main problem, and something I'm sure we'd all agree is a no-no.
                        Sure, and I grew up, as I said, in a denomination that had all the charts and graphs of when Jesus would return, complete with the whole pre-millennial pre-trib rapture scenario, and the dome on the rock, and all kinds of other things that had to happen....

                        But I've heard so many "good explanations" from theologians I highly respect who disagree with each other that I have come to the point of realizing I am not the guy who is going to figure this out all by myself.

                        He will come when His Father gives the word, and I need to be ready. I do believe it could happen before I die.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seanD View Post

                          Are you serious? How about the rest of Matthew 24?

                          Try Matthew 24:32?
                          First read Matthew 24:29: nothing spoken of there has happened, and understanding from astronomy confirms that there will indeed come a time when the moon ceases to give its light (as viewed from Earth.)

                          We have not seen the advent of the two witnesses (Rev 11), nor (arguably) have we seen the gospel promulgated throughout the world.

                          There has been no "great falling away," (2 Thess 2) because there has been no great adherence to fall away from.

                          There will be signs pointing to Christ's return - they are not in evidence yet.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            He will come when His Father gives the word, and I need to be ready. I do believe it could happen before I die.
                            Nothing I see indicates that it will happen during our lifetimes. But as you have said - the idea is that we live as though Jesus will return sometime during the next five minutes ... and I add ... that we should be building as though he will not be returning anytime during the next ten millenia.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post

                              I actually agree with you. "A thousand years is as a day to the Lord" indicates it's only been two days since then.
                              I don't think that the term a thousand days was meant to be a literal, exact figure (although some ECFs would disagree) but rather a way of saying for a very long time.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                                Mat 24:6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
                                Mat 24:7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
                                Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

                                Matthew 24 doesn't seem to hold much by way of instruction to spend time considering the end times.
                                Moreover these signs are things that happen all of the time. When is there not a time when "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom"? And while famines are decreasing (today most are man-made), like earthquakes in various places, they aren't rare enough occurrences to be very useful.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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