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This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

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Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

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Why it's important to look for signs of the last days

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  • Why it's important to look for signs of the last days

    Simply put, because it's scriptural.

    Often we hear the argument today that goes something like this: "We shouldn't be concerned about the last days; we should always be prepared for the Lord's return regardless."

    I don't dispute the latter (though it's a bit of a strawman argument), the former is not scriptural. There are three situations I recall from scripture where Jesus and the apostles addressed the last days. Jesus (Matthew 24), Paul (2 Thess 2), and John (1 John 2:18) all addressed this issue, and none of them rebutted it with the argument above.

    In fact, to the contrary, Jesus instructed them directly to "know" the signs and the seasons. So to say we shouldn't be concerned about the signs is not only not based on scripture, but contrary to scripture; the instructions of the Lord himself to be exact.
    "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

  • #2
    Now He was questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, and He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” (Luke 17:20-21)
    When I Survey....

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    • #3
      Generally, the problem with a "looking for signs" is that it's so easy to be wrong.

      Not saying you're doing this, but I know people who got so involved with looking for signs that they fit the category "so heavenly minded they're no earthly good".
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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      • #4
        Scripture Verse: Matthew 16

        1 Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came and tested Jesus by asking Him to show them a sign from heaven.

        2 But He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘The weather will be fair, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but not the signs of the times. 4 A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Then He left them and went away.

        © Copyright Original Source

        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Generally, the problem with a "looking for signs" is that it's so easy to be wrong.

          Not saying you're doing this, but I know people who got so involved with looking for signs that they fit the category "so heavenly minded they're no earthly good".
          Sure, but I never said there wouldn't be inevitable issues about it, but that's beside the point. Looking for signs is scriptural. Saying we shouldn't look for signs is unscriptural.


          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Scripture Verse: Matthew 16

          1 Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came and tested Jesus by asking Him to show them a sign from heaven.

          2 But He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘The weather will be fair, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but not the signs of the times. 4 A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Then He left them and went away.

          © Copyright Original Source



          Come on, CP, you can do better than that. That has nothing to with your argument. In fact, it actually rebuts your argument.

          "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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          • #6
            Let's start with Matt 24 --- where, specifically, does it tell us to look for signs? What sign are you looking for, and what are you to do about it?
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Let's start with Matt 24 --- where, specifically, does it tell us to look for signs? What sign are you looking for, and what are you to do about it?
              You know exactly what I'm talking about. Know the "seasons," know when he's "at the door." The very questions the disciples ask him before he gave those signs, and the signs he gave as indicators. The whole point of Matthew 24 debunks your argument. If Jesus didn't want us looking for signs, he would have stated that from the get-go.
              "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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              • #8
                We've been in the "Last Days" since the Church's first Pentecost.
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Nationalist.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                  We've been in the "Last Days" since the Church's first Pentecost.
                  I actually agree with you. "A thousand years is as a day to the Lord" indicates it's only been two days since then.
                  "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post

                    You know exactly what I'm talking about. Know the "seasons," know when he's "at the door." The very questions the disciples ask him before he gave those signs, and the signs he gave as indicators. The whole point of Matthew 24 debunks your argument. If Jesus didn't want us looking for signs, he would have stated that from the get-go.
                    Sean, I didn't come here with an "argument" - I was fully prepared to talk this out, but you seem more interested in doing battle.

                    I'll show myself out.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                    • #11

                      Mat 24:6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
                      Mat 24:7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
                      Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

                      Matthew 24 doesn't seem to hold much by way of instruction to spend time considering the end times.


                      sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        Sean, I didn't come here with an "argument" - I was fully prepared to talk this out, but you seem more interested in doing battle.

                        I'll show myself out.
                        It's how I debate. We've debated before so you know how I debate. If don't want to debate it, that's fine. It just shows you likely realize you're wrong.
                        "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                          Mat 24:6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
                          Mat 24:7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
                          Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

                          Matthew 24 doesn't seem to hold much by way of instruction to spend time considering the end times.

                          Are you serious? How about the rest of Matthew 24?

                          Try Matthew 24:32?

                          "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seanD View Post
                            It's how I debate. We've debated before so you know how I debate. If don't want to debate it, that's fine. It just shows you likely realize you're wrong.
                            No, Sean, I get tired of Christians battling Christians, and treating each other like the enemy.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              No, Sean, I get tired of Christians battling Christians, and treating each other like the enemy.
                              You do it all the time in civics.

                              You just needed an excuse to crawl out with your tail tucked because you realize you're wrong.
                              "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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