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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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Are We Approaching The End Times?

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  • Are We Approaching The End Times?

    Ever since I became an adult Christian and started taking it more seriously beyond Sunday church attendance, I've listened to teachings about are we in or approaching the End Times. On the conservative end anyways, it seems to be a continuous discussion.

    Back when I started listening, all the teachings seemed to be is this political event foretold in the Bible? Also, discussion of is this event involving Israel a part of End Time prophecy? On occasion, there would be some discussion of an economic event.

    Covid has, no big surprise, brought end times discussion back to the forefront especially on mark of the Beast and one world government. Also since our world finances are more connected and controlled, that is brought up as a sign of the end.

    Compared to when I started listening to these teachings, there was discussion of would the church see revival or a falling away as the End Times approached. The change I've noticed is it's now pretty unanimous that it's going to be a falling away. Another change I've noticed compared to years ago is less teaching that the United States won't experience persecution until after the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

    Now as I read the Bible one thing that I saw was all of these discussions leave out the social aspects of the approach of the end times. As one example, no discussion on say Matthew 24:12. So I've found these teachings on the end times a lacking because they neglected to talk about the social signs the End Times are approaching.

    I am on the mailing list for a national ministry. This month, their monthly mailing talk about the signs of the end times. The categories they listed are
    1. Apostasy
    2. Pandemic
    3. End Times People
    4. Socialism
    5. Cancel Culture
    6. Economic Chaos
    7. Jerusalem
    8. Spiritual Famine
    9. Globalism
    Of course being a national ministry, they are trying to sell a book and other resources about this. I'll admit for the first time, I'm actually thinking about buying the book. I'm drawn by the more completeness of the discussion than I've encountered before. Especially #3 in the list when the subtitle is "Would you be surprised to know the decay of character is a precursor for Christ's return?"

    Now, I won't argue that the End Times could begin tomorrow or not for another hundred years. I forget how it was worked out from the Bible, but I remember teachers that said 2,000 years after Christ's Incarnation is when He'll return. We've gone past 2,000 years after His birth but we are coming up on 2,000 years after His Crucifixion and Resurrection. Of course we can all point to failed predictions. In my life, I've seen one pastor who convinced the Mayans had been told the date (December 21, 2012) or Harold Camping who predicted various days in 1994 and 2011. So the history is full of false predictions of when Christ will return.

    What do you think? Are enough signs falling into place that the End Times are arriving or do we have a wait ahead of us?
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

  • #2
    I think we are supposed to be ready for whenever the Day of the Lord is to come. It is certainly closer now than it was when Jesus ascended into heaven, and getting closer every day.

    There are issues when people try to start making world events fit eschatology. I try not to do that.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #3
      I believe that the authors of the books of the New Testament believed they were "in the end times" or the "end times" were about to be revealed.

      I look at it like this --- for 2,000 years, people have been expecting Christ to return in their lifetimes.
      That it hasn't happened yet gives people the false sense of security that it won't.

      Logic, however, tells you that if it is "out there somewhere", then we're certainly closer to it than the New Testament writers 2,000 years ago.

      If we knew for a fact that Jesus would return on 1 November, 2021, we would all act very differently, and would do things we are not doing, and would stop doing things we are currently doing.

      We would be wise if we were simply to live like Jesus would return tonight.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        I believe that the authors of the books of the New Testament believed they were "in the end times" or the "end times" were about to be revealed.

        I look at it like this --- for 2,000 years, people have been expecting Christ to return in their lifetimes.
        That it hasn't happened yet gives people the false sense of security that it won't.

        Logic, however, tells you that if it is "out there somewhere", then we're certainly closer to it than the New Testament writers 2,000 years ago.

        If we knew for a fact that Jesus would return on 1 November, 2021, we would all act very differently, and would do things we are not doing, and would stop doing things we are currently doing.

        We would be wise if we were simply to live like Jesus would return tonight.
        And we each will come face to face with Jesus at the end of our life, so wondering when he will come back to us is not as important as wondering when we will go to him. Because that is coming real soon for everyone.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
          I think we are supposed to be ready for whenever the Day of the Lord is to come. It is certainly closer now than it was when Jesus ascended into heaven, and getting closer every day.

          There are issues when people try to start making world events fit eschatology. I try not to do that.
          As a matter of fact, there have been so many WRONG predictions, that when there's another "ok, this is really it", it's like the boy who cried wolf.

          Even JESUS doesn't know!
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            As a matter of fact, there have been so many WRONG predictions, that when there's another "ok, this is really it", it's like the boy who cried wolf.

            Even JESUS doesn't know!
            He didn't know. He does now.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mossrose View Post

              He didn't know. He does now.
              But He's not telling.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                But He's not telling.
                Yuh!


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                  Yuh!
                  Unless he told you!
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Unless he told you!
                    Nuh!


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      I think we are supposed to be ready for whenever the Day of the Lord is to come. It is certainly closer now than it was when Jesus ascended into heaven, and getting closer every day.

                      There are issues when people try to start making world events fit eschatology. I try not to do that.
                      I agree with you when people can get over obsessed with eschatology.

                      Unfortunately we also have the flip side which is totally ignoring the subject which may indicate someone is drifting away from the faith.

                      Like most subjects in Christianity, it needs to be taught but not obsessed over.
                      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                        I agree with you when people can get over obsessed with eschatology.

                        Unfortunately we also have the flip side which is totally ignoring the subject which may indicate someone is drifting away from the faith.

                        Like most subjects in Christianity, it needs to be taught but not obsessed over.
                        Absolutely agree.


                        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                          Ever since I became an adult Christian and started taking it more seriously beyond Sunday church attendance, I've listened to teachings about are we in or approaching the End Times. On the conservative end anyways, it seems to be a continuous discussion.

                          Back when I started listening, all the teachings seemed to be is this political event foretold in the Bible? Also, discussion of is this event involving Israel a part of End Time prophecy? On occasion, there would be some discussion of an economic event.

                          Covid has, no big surprise, brought end times discussion back to the forefront especially on mark of the Beast and one world government. Also since our world finances are more connected and controlled, that is brought up as a sign of the end.

                          Compared to when I started listening to these teachings, there was discussion of would the church see revival or a falling away as the End Times approached. The change I've noticed is it's now pretty unanimous that it's going to be a falling away. Another change I've noticed compared to years ago is less teaching that the United States won't experience persecution until after the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

                          Now as I read the Bible one thing that I saw was all of these discussions leave out the social aspects of the approach of the end times. As one example, no discussion on say Matthew 24:12. So I've found these teachings on the end times a lacking because they neglected to talk about the social signs the End Times are approaching.

                          I am on the mailing list for a national ministry. This month, their monthly mailing talk about the signs of the end times. The categories they listed are
                          1. Apostasy
                          2. Pandemic
                          3. End Times People
                          4. Socialism
                          5. Cancel Culture
                          6. Economic Chaos
                          7. Jerusalem
                          8. Spiritual Famine
                          9. Globalism
                          Of course being a national ministry, they are trying to sell a book and other resources about this. I'll admit for the first time, I'm actually thinking about buying the book. I'm drawn by the more completeness of the discussion than I've encountered before. Especially #3 in the list when the subtitle is "Would you be surprised to know the decay of character is a precursor for Christ's return?"

                          Now, I won't argue that the End Times could begin tomorrow or not for another hundred years. I forget how it was worked out from the Bible, but I remember teachers that said 2,000 years after Christ's Incarnation is when He'll return. We've gone past 2,000 years after His birth but we are coming up on 2,000 years after His Crucifixion and Resurrection. Of course we can all point to failed predictions. In my life, I've seen one pastor who convinced the Mayans had been told the date (December 21, 2012) or Harold Camping who predicted various days in 1994 and 2011. So the history is full of false predictions of when Christ will return.

                          What do you think? Are enough signs falling into place that the End Times are arriving or do we have a wait ahead of us?
                          I don't think think there's a Christian in the world right now, regardless of what eschatological view they hold, who won't admit that there is something highly unusual happening in the world right now that they can't explain.

                          With that said, personally, I believe we're definitely in the last days, but I've believed that for some time, before any of this stuff started happening. What convinced me is our communication technology, which was never before possible to any previous generation.
                          "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seanD View Post

                            I don't think think there's a Christian in the world right now, regardless of what eschatological view they hold, who won't admit that there is something highly unusual happening in the world right now that they can't explain.

                            With that said, personally, I believe we're definitely in the last days, but I've believed that for some time, before any of this stuff started happening. What convinced me is our communication technology, which was never before possible to any previous generation.
                            And btw, I don't like the phrase "End Times," because it denotes that false strawman "End of the World." I believe we're in the generation of the end of the age, but not the end of the world.
                            "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post

                              And btw, I don't like the phrase "End Times," because it denotes that false strawman "End of the World." I believe we're in the generation of the end of the age, but not the end of the world.
                              How bout "the Day of the Lord"?
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment

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