Giving the 'Blood Moon' claims some credit

[seanD]

I agree with the premise of your OP, sean. I would also add the "Revelation 12 sign" in 2017, which may or may not have been a divinely orchestrated sign, but caused a ruckus in both believing and unbelieving circles.

What's also interesting is that Luke seems to indicate certain astronomical "signs," yet doesn't seem as specific as Matthew, who indicates this "immediately" precedes Christ's return. I'm not sure what to make of that, if it's the same event and either Luke redacted it or the tradition itself was different, or if it's a different event altogether.

[Darfius]

Of course Western persecution doesn't carry more weight. I'm pointing out the lack of it. Since the Bible indicates persecution will be global and the west doesn't have persecution therefore we are not in the end times.

Years ago, I was pre-trib rapture. Since then, the more I've read the Bible, the less convincing I find pre-trib rapture to be. I don't have a position right now on the tribulation and rapture and the timing thereof.

"Beginning of sorrows". Obviously things will progress, not switch from calm seas to a raging storm all of a sudden. Revelation presents the "end times" as unfolding as a sealed scroll. We could be and are in the end times despite not being in the specific 3.5 year period (or 7 year period) as yet.

[Darfius]

What's the "OD?"

Olivet Discourse

[Sparko]

Olivet Discourse

Thank you.

[Thoughtful Monk]

"Beginning of sorrows". Obviously things will progress, not switch from calm seas to a raging storm all of a sudden. Revelation presents the "end times" as unfolding as a sealed scroll. We could be and are in the end times despite not being in the specific 3.5 year period (or 7 year period) as yet.

I agree we are probably at the "Beginning of sorrows." Unfortunately, the Bible doesn't give a clear explanation of how long the "Beginning of Sorrows" phase is. Off-handedly, I think I could make an argument that we've been in the beginning since the Crucifixion.

[Sparko]

I still don't see why 2015 was supposedly the start of the end times? What did I miss?

If you compare everything that went on the last few years, (disasters, wars, a pandemic, riots) with say, 100 years ago at the beginning of the 20th century, we don't hold a candle to it. The first half of the 20th century was marked with two world wars, the Spanish flu, the stock market crash and great depression, the Dust Bowl, the 1906 San Francisco earthquake. I could go on for a while here.

[rogue06]

I still don't see why 2015 was supposedly the start of the end times? What did I miss?

If you compare everything that went on the last few years, (disasters, wars, a pandemic, riots) with say, 100 years ago at the beginning of the 20th century, we don't hold a candle to it. The first half of the 20th century was marked with two world wars, the Spanish flu, the stock market crash and great depression, the Dust Bowl, the 1906 San Francisco earthquake. I could go on for a while here.

The drought in China in the late 20s is thought to have killed millions, but the Yangtze-Huai River floods in 1931 killed even more.

Of the 10 worst natural disasters in the 20th cent., only one, another Chinese flood in 1959 which killed roughly 2 million, occurred in the second half of the century.

[seanD]

I still don't see why 2015 was supposedly the start of the end times? What did I miss?

If you compare everything that went on the last few years, (disasters, wars, a pandemic, riots) with say, 100 years ago at the beginning of the 20th century, we don't hold a candle to it. The first half of the 20th century was marked with two world wars, the Spanish flu, the stock market crash and great depression, the Dust Bowl, the 1906 San Francisco earthquake. I could go on for a while here.

Personally, I think the generation clock started at about 2000 or once social media and how we communicate information came to the fore, so as far as the Blood Moon thing. I can take it or leave it. I just thought it was a heck of a coincidence. Everyone scoffed at the religious folks (including Christians) that promoted it, and now all of a sudden, look where we are, and where we're heading.

[rogue06]

Personally, I think the generation clock started at about 2000 or once social media and how we communicate information came to the fore, so as far as the Blood Moon thing. I can take it or leave it. I just thought it was a heck of a coincidence. Everyone scoffed at the religious folks (including Christians) that promoted it, and now all of a sudden, look where we are, and where we're heading.

Personally, I think that history is chock full of eras when things were considerably worse than what we are experiencing now.

[seanD]

Personally, I think that history is chock full of eras when things were considerably worse than what we are experiencing now.

It's a progression.

But my position has been not on the events themselves.

[Darfius]

Personally, I think that history is chock full of eras when things were considerably worse than what we are experiencing now.

There's that pesky "we" again that disregards Christians being genocided in China and the Middle East. You have no conception of the real world.

[seanD]

There's that pesky "we" again that disregards Christians being genocided in China and the Middle East. You have no conception of the real world.

I'm sure Christians outside US probably think it's the apocalypse. It's that western complacency and arrogance. I find myself guilty of that. And I think God is about to test that attitude real soon.

[rogue06]

There's that pesky "we" again that disregards Christians being genocided in China and the Middle East. You have no conception of the real world.

I guess that must be something completely new and never seen before.

Perhaps you should look up what the Ottomans, for one, were doing during the late 19th early 20th centuries. Little things like the genocide against the Armenians who were Christians btw. This was actually the culmination of Ottoman Muslim policy that resulted in large systematic massacres of Armenian Christians since the 1890s. Lesser known is the fact that the Ottoman's also targeted Syriac Christians and Greek Orthodox Christians for genocide as well. Probably because they were considerably less numerous.

As for China... Christians have pretty much faced various degrees of persecution there since it was outlawed during the Ming dynasty in the 17th cent. To point to persecution there now is hardly saying anything new. Ironically, the Uyghur Muslims in western China who are suffering the worst persecution in China today, had a reputation for expelling or killing Christians back in the late 19th cent. up to WWII.

Finally, I have posted multiple times here about Christians being persecuted today. For instance, HERE and HERE for two examples. I even brought up how it is increasing here in the west.

So spare me your proclamation that I have "no conception of the real world" which is especially rich coming from someone who thinks reality keeps shifting on us oh Mr. Mandela Effect

[Darfius]

I guess that must be something completely new and never seen before.

Perhaps you should look up what the Ottomans, for one, were doing during the late 19th early 20th centuries. Little things like the genocide against the Armenians who were Christians btw. This was actually the culmination of Ottoman Muslim policy that resulted in large systematic massacres of Armenian Christians since the 1890s. Lesser known is the fact that the Ottoman's also targeted Syriac Christians and Greek Orthodox Christians for genocide as well. Probably because they were considerably less numerous.

As for China... Christians have pretty much faced various degrees of persecution there since it was outlawed during the Ming dynasty in the 17th cent. To point to persecution there now is hardly saying anything new. Ironically, the Uyghur Muslims in western China who are suffering the worst persecution in China today, had a reputation for expelling or killing Christians back in the late 19th cent. up to WWII.

Finally, I have posted multiple times here about Christians being persecuted today. For instance, HERE and HERE for two examples. I even brought up how it is increasing here in the west.

So spare me your proclamation that I have "no conception of the real world" which is especially rich coming from someone who thinks reality keeps shifting on us oh Mr. Mandela Effect

Each of your posts was in service to a larger political argument you wanted to make to virtue signal to your in-group. Your compassion overwhelms.

Your quick googling of Christian persecution aside, my argument was not that the genocide happening in the East is unique, but to call you out for proclaiming what "we" are experiencing in an obviously tone deaf manner.

Europe has long since been invaded by Muslims and is post-Christian, ready and willing to globalize and possesses protections for Christians only as a vestige of a system that is on its death rattle.

America has an openly Communistic regime that is completing the final stages of dismantling what we know of as "the West" with the pandemic helping them speed along that process exponentially.

You are a fat frog oblivious to the water coming to a boil around you.

[rogue06]

Each of your posts was in service to a larger political argument you wanted to make to virtue signal to your in-group. Your compassion overwhelms.

Your attempt at mind reading must be receiving interference from a Mandela Effect.

Better luck next time.

Your quick googling of Christian persecution aside, my argument was not that the genocide happening in the East is unique, but to call you out for proclaiming what "we" are experiencing in an obviously tone deaf manner.

The Googling was to provide links for someone who is suffering from the delusion that what we are going through is either unique or worse than what we've gone through in the past so that they could see for themselves that they are in error

Europe has long since been invaded by Muslims and is post-Christian, ready and willing to globalize and possesses protections for Christians only as a vestige of a system that is on its death rattle.

Europe is increasingly the sick man of ... well, Europe. That is beside the point.

America has an openly Communistic regime that is completing the final stages of dismantling what we know of as "the West" with the pandemic helping them speed along that process exponentially.

Recently some clown posted the following

Each of your posts was in service to a larger political argument you wanted to make to virtue signal to your in-group. Your compassion overwhelms

Pretty hypocritical especially considering that you went all of three sentences after duducing^[1] my post "was in service to a larger political argument" before you start presenting a political argument. smiley snicker.gif

You are a fat frog oblivious to the water coming to a boil around you.

Another political allusion, and one based on a myth to boot. We've known that frogs won't sit in a pan of water as it is slowly brought to a boil since, IIRC, shortly after the Civil War ended. And countless people have discovered this for themselves over the years as well.




1. another shot at coining a word, meaning a deduction that was a dud. So help me if this is an actual word already...