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Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

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From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

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"Appointed unto men ONCE to die" contradicts the rapture's "translation" myth

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Darfius View Post

    I find it difficult to differentiate between those who say everything bad happened to the Jews in the distant past and those who think they will be raptured out of harm's way while everything bad happens to the Jews in the near future. The spirit behind them both is the same and it isn't Christ's Spirit.

    I dont believe "everything bad happens to the Jews in the near future". I believe all unbelievers will go through the great tribulation and some will become believers during that time. That time will be a renewal of God's dealing with Israel, since they were cut off when they rejected Christ as their Messiah. But the whole world will be caught up in it.

    If anybody thinks as you are saying, then they have a wrong view of futurism.




    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #47
      Why would Paul call a "reassurance" a mystery? Had not the Lord Jesus already told us that if we believed in Him we would not die and that He would resurrect us? A mystery in Scripture is previously unrevealed information. And Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping and the Scripture immediately explains this meant Lazarus was dead. So by saying we shall not all sleep, Paul clearly means we shall not all die.

      And by saying those who are "alive and remain", he is alluding to the endtime "remnant", a theme all throughout Scripture.

      Scripture Verse: 1 Kings 19

      18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”

      © Copyright Original Source



      Scripture Verse: Isaiah 10

      20 In that day the remnant of Israel,
      the survivors of Jacob,
      will no longer rely on him
      who struck them down
      but will truly rely on the Lord,
      the Holy One of Israel.
      21 A remnant will return,a remnant of Jacob
      will return to the Mighty God.
      22 Though your people be like the sand by the sea, Israel,
      only a remnant will return.
      Destruction has been decreed,
      overwhelming and righteous.
      23 The Lord, the Lord Almighty, will carry out
      the destruction decreed upon the whole land.

      © Copyright Original Source



      Scripture Verse: Genesis 45

      4 Then Joseph said to his brothers, “Come close to me.” When they had done so, he said, “I am your brother Joseph, the one you sold into Egypt! 5 And now, do not be distressed and do not be angry with yourselves for selling me here, because it was to save lives that God sent me ahead of you. 6 For two years now there has been famine in the land, and for the next five years there will be no plowing and reaping. 7 But God sent me ahead of you to preserve for you a remnant on earth and to save your lives by a great deliverance.

      © Copyright Original Source



      Scripture Verse: Isaiah 11:11[U

      ]It will happen in that day[/U] that the Lord will set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

      © Copyright Original Source



      Scripture Verse: Isaiah 11:16

      There will be a highway for the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, like there was for Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt. [2nd, greater Exodus detailed in Ezekiel 37]

      © Copyright Original Source



      Scripture Verse: Isaiah 28:5

      In that day will Yahweh of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the remnant of his people;

      © Copyright Original Source



      And just in case anyone is tempted to think the Elijah "reserve" verse is not like the others:

      Scripture Verse: Romans 11

      1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal. 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

      © Copyright Original Source


      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Darfius View Post

        I find it difficult to differentiate between those who say everything bad happened to the Jews in the distant past and those who think they will be raptured out of harm's way while everything bad happens to the Jews in the near future. The spirit behind them both is the same and it isn't Christ's Spirit.
        Oh yeah I forgot you think you are the only True™ Christian and everyone else is going to hell and are preterists. I think we only have a couple of partial preterists on this site, and no full blown preterists. I myself am plain futurist, pre-millenial baptist.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post


          I dont believe "everything bad happens to the Jews in the near future". I believe all unbelievers will go through the great tribulation and some will become believers during that time. That time will be a renewal of God's dealing with Israel, since they were cut off when they rejected Christ as their Messiah. But the whole world will be caught up in it.

          If anybody thinks as you are saying, then they have a wrong view of futurism.

          "Israel" was not cut off, the tribes of Judah (Jews), Benjamin and some of Levi were cut off, but Paul explains in Romans 11 they can be grafted back in. And as implied, the other tribes were not even present to make a decision either way. The end times involves the regathering of all the tribes as made abundantly clear in Revelation 7. Many of those assimilated tribes are now "Christians".

          Tribulation means testing. It is pointless to test unbelievers as they would always fail, but days are coming and are now here where "even the elect could be deceived, if that were possible". The wheat will be sifted from the tares and true Christians will be sifted from lip service Christians.

          Paul makes it crystal clear in Romans 11 that just as the Jews thought they had everything figured out in their day, like "being saved" because they descended from Abraham and therefore rejecting Christ, "Gentiles" (Christians) will make the same mistake and consider themselves "saved" because they are "covered by the blood" (a phrase that doesn't appear in Scripture). And he says explicitly they can be cut off too.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Darfius View Post

            I know this comforts you to say, but are you certain it is true? I don't find any verses that say, "All I require is lip service" and many verses which say otherwise.
            Trusting in Jesus is not lip service. Lip service would be someone that thinks they're good because they checked "Christian" on a census form and go to church but never actually accepted the gift of salvation. And being a Christian should result in being a better person. And as long as we're here in a fallen world, we are in the school of hard knocks.
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

            Comment


            • #51
              Sparko, I have never claimed that I had some esoteric "special" knowledge that no one else has ever seen before. After all, "there is nothing new under the sun", right? Instead of focusing on how many people you are aware of in your lifetime to date that have never heard of this before, why can't you simply concentrate on the scripture I am bringing up and counter that with scripture of your own to prove this viewpoint wrong? We are both coming from the same Word of God in front of us, aren't we? You and mossrose will have to do better than simply dismissively waving your hand and saying "Wrong". WHY is it wrong? And what scriptures do you bring to the disagreement that PROVE this to be wrong?

              I've not been posting here on this website long enough for any of you to have a full idea of how all these concepts I am bringing up are tied together, so your temporary confusion about what I am saying is to be expected. I don't mind the questions at all. Even mockery or ridicule does not bother me. If I am wrong on these eschatological themes, it would be a kindness for you to prove my error from scripture. But it should be obvious from scripture that "traditions of men" for tradition's own sake are not sacred. They weren't necessarily sacred to Jesus, and they should not be necessarily sacred to us.

              My screen name choice of "3 Resurrections" is deliberate, of course. That is because I see scripture laying out a pattern of no less and no more than THREE bodily resurrection events over time - not just one mass resurrection for all time at the very end of fallen man's history on this planet. God deliberately designed the Mosaic rituals of tabernacle worship to symbolize those THREE bodily resurrection events to come. Even a very young Jewish child could catch the symbolism behind the "seed" and "harvest" of the three typical Jewish crops that represented dead bodies being resurrected or "harvested" from the ground on three separate occasions. The THREE main harvest feast celebrations for the Israelites with REQUIRED attendance for every adult male (at Passover, Pentecost, and the Feast of Tabernacles) provide the THREE types for the THREE bodily resurrection events. And all three resurrections were to take place at the same corresponding times of the year that the Mosaic harvest feast celebrations were designed to take place.

              There should be no problem with anybody recognizing that Christ and the Matthew 27:52-53 saints all rose from the dead at a time connected with the PASSOVER feast. That was no accident. Christ is actually called "Our Passover". Those Matthew 27 resurrected "First-fruits" were the fulfillment of the "sheaf handful" of "first-fruits" of the barley harvest offered in the temple along with a single he-lamb which was meant to represent Christin in that "First resurrection" (Leviticus 23:10-12). This "First-fruits" offering was only a sample of an even bigger harvest of wheat to come later around Pentecost Day.

              The next, second bodily resurrection event that Daniel was promised to share in took place in AD 70 on that year's Pentecost day. We know this from Daniel predicting an oddly precise 1,335th day after certain historical events were to take place (Daniel 12:11-13). If anyone wants to know how that day was historically fulfilled on the calendar on AD 70's Pentecost day, I can provide that from Josephus' records of the war.

              With the Passover AD 33 and Pentecost day AD 70 resurrection events being fulfilled antitypes, the only feast day celebration left to fulfill for us in a future third resurrection event is one which will take place at the time of year (the seventh month) when the Feast of Tabernacles would have ordinarily taken place under Mosaic law. That is why this ONE required feast is the ONLY ONE emphasized three times in Zechariah 14:16-19, after Jerusalem's AD 70 prophesied destruction spoken of in Zechariah chapters 12-14 had taken place. That is because the other two harvest feast celebrations would have already had their antitype fulfillment by AD 70, and would not need to be mentioned again.

              The rapture was a promise for the first-century generation of believers who would have died or been martyred before that AD 70 Pentecost Day resurrection would occur. The apostle Paul himself longed to be martyred, so that "by any means I might arrive at the resurrection of the dead" (Phil 3:11), which he had told Timothy was "about to be" in his day (II Tim. 4:1) The I Thess. 4 rapture of all the resurrected saints to heaven was a promise for THEM, not for us. This is why none of the individuals resurrected to life again in the OT and the NT were around on earth anymore after AD 70's Pentecost Day resurrection had come and gone. That 1,335th day's rapture was their exit from this world; both the "living and REMAINING" resurrected saints, and the newly-resurrected saints that Christ raised from the dead at His coming to the Mount of Olives that day.

              And there is proof given to us of Christ already having returned to the Mount of Olives, by the earthquake rubble layers lying on the slopes of the Mount of Olives today. These rubble layers dated from King Uzziah's day as well as from an AD 70 era earthquake were dislodged by the Mount of Olives breaking up and sliding downhill to "block up" the Kidron Valley as far as Azal (as prophesied in Zechariah 14:4-5 in the LXX). That rubble filling up the Kidron Valley is Christ's "calling card", so to speak. He bodily came, He bodily-resurrected, then He bodily-raptured all His resurrected saints to heaven and "received them unto Himself". There is a party going on in heaven now with resurrected believers face-to-face with their Creator, and we will be part of that rejoicing throng ourselves in due time.






              Last edited by 3 Resurrections; 03-30-2021, 03:05 PM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by 3 Resurrections View Post
                Sparko, I have never claimed that I had some esoteric "special" knowledge that no one else has ever seen before. After all, "there is nothing new under the sun", right? Instead of focusing on how many people you are aware of in your lifetime to date that have never heard of this before, why can't you simply concentrate on the scripture I am bringing up and counter that with scripture of your own to prove this viewpoint wrong? We are both coming from the same Word of God in front of us, aren't we? You and mossrose will have to do better than simply dismissively waving your hand and saying "Wrong". WHY is it wrong? And what scriptures do you bring to the disagreement that PROVE this to be wrong?
                been there and done that. When someone thinks they know what scripture is saying, and uses proof texts like you do, then nothing we can say will change your mind, because you think you already know what the verse is saying despite what anyone will tell you. No, the only way I have found to get through to someone like that is to go for the root of the problem: Your pride that you know better than all the other Christian theologians in the last 2000 years. Which is what you are doing. You seem nice enough, but you are deluding yourself.

                So who else believes as you do? Can you show me one commentary or book by a recognized Church Father or Theologian that expresses what you believe?


                .

                My screen name choice of "3 Resurrections" is deliberate, of course. That is because I see scripture laying out a pattern of no less and no more than THREE bodily resurrection events over time - not just one mass resurrection for all time at the very end of fallen man's history on this planet. God deliberately designed the Mosaic rituals of tabernacle worship to symbolize those THREE bodily resurrection events to come. Even a very young Jewish child could catch the symbolism behind the "seed" and "harvest" of the three typical Jewish crops that represented dead bodies being resurrected or "harvested" from the ground on three separate occasions. The THREE main harvest feast celebrations for the Israelites with REQUIRED attendance for every adult male (at Passover, Pentecost, and the Feast of Tabernacles) provide the THREE types for the THREE bodily resurrection events. And all three resurrections were to take place at the same corresponding times of the year that the Mosaic harvest feast celebrations were designed to take place.

                There should be no problem with anybody recognizing that Christ and the Matthew 27:52-53 saints all rose from the dead at a time connected with the PASSOVER feast. That was no accident. Christ is actually called "Our Passover". Those Matthew 27 resurrected "First-fruits" were the fulfillment of the "sheaf handful" of "first-fruits" of the barley harvest offered in the temple along with a single he-lamb which was meant to represent Christ and the "First resurrection" (Leviticus 23:10-12). This "First-fruits" offering was only a sample of an even bigger harvest of wheat to come later around Pentecost Day.
                OK so that is the "first" resurrection to you?

                The next, second bodily resurrection event that Daniel was promised to share in took place in AD 70 on that year's Pentecost day. We know this from Daniel predicting an oddly precise 1,335th day after certain historical events were to take place (Daniel 12:11-13). If anyone wants to know how that day was historically fulfilled on the calendar on AD 70's Pentecost day, I can provide that from Josephus' records of the war.
                You would think that the bible would mention that then. What about all of the other Christians after 70AD?

                With the Passover AD 33 and Pentecost day AD 70 resurrection events being fulfilled antitypes, the only feast day celebration left to fulfill for us in a future third resurrection event is one which will take place at the time of year (the seventh month) when the Feast of Tabernacles would have ordinarily taken place under Mosaic law. That is why this ONE required feast is the ONLY ONE emphasized three times in Zechariah 14:16-19, after Jerusalem's AD 70 prophesied destruction spoken of in Zechariah chapters 12-14 had taken place. That is because the other two harvest feast celebrations would have already had their antitype fulfillment by AD 70, and would not need to be mentioned again.

                The rapture was a promise for the first-century generation of believers who would have died or been martyred before that AD 70 Pentecost Day resurrection would occur. The apostle Paul himself longed to be martyred, so that "by any means I might arrive at the resurrection of the dead" (Phil 3:11), which he had told Timothy was "about to be" in his day (II Tim. 4:1) The I Thess. 4 rapture of all the resurrected saints to heaven was a promise for THEM, not for us. This is why none of the individuals resurrected to life again in the OT and the NT were around on earth anymore after AD 70's Pentecost Day resurrection had come and gone. That 1,335th day's rapture was their exit from this world; both the "living and REMAINING" resurrected saints, and the newly-resurrected saints that Christ raised from the dead at His coming to the Mount of Olives that day.

                And there is proof given to us of Christ already having returned to the Mount of Olives, by the earthquake rubble layers lying on the slopes of the Mount of Olives today. These rubble layers dated from an AD 70 era earthquake were dislodged by the Mount of Olives breaking up and sliding downhill to "block up" the Kidron Valley as far as Azal (as prophesied in Zechariah 14:4-5 in the LXX). That rubble filling up the Kidron Valley is Christ's "calling card", so to speak. He bodily came, He bodily-resurrected, then He bodily-raptured all His resurrected saints to heaven and "received them unto Himself". There is a party going on in heaven now with resurrected believers face-to-face with their Creator, and we will be part of that rejoicing throng ourselves in due time.

                still not sure what you believe.

                OK looking at revelation 20, which resurrection happened when?

                Rev 20: 4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

                So we have one resurrection here, and THEN 1000 years later we have another one:

                11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

                1. Resurrection of martyrs.
                2. 1000 years of reigning with Christ
                3. White Throne Judgement.

                So if the 1000 years was BEFORE Christ as I think you said, doesn't that mean that the first resurrection happened before Jesus was resurrected? Or if it happened in 70AD then shouldn't the White Throne Judgment have happened in 1070AD?





                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post

                  Trusting in Jesus is not lip service. Lip service would be someone that thinks they're good because they checked "Christian" on a census form and go to church but never actually accepted the gift of salvation. And being a Christian should result in being a better person. And as long as we're here in a fallen world, we are in the school of hard knocks.
                  Jesus said those who love Him keep His commandments. "Accepting the gift of salvation" is another phrase that doesn't appear in Scripture and represents damning traditions of men. Repent.

                  Comment


                  • #54

                    Wait a minute? Isn't the idea you have to earn salvation heretical? We're saved by grace, not by works. Works are a natural consequence of salvation.
                    Last edited by Christianbookworm; 03-30-2021, 04:21 PM.
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post

                      Wait a minute? Isn't the idea you have to earn salvation heretical? We're saved by grace, not by works. Works are a natural consequence of salvation.
                      Saved from what? Why was Jesus named Jesus?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Darfius View Post

                        Saved from what? Why was Jesus named Jesus?
                        It means YHWH saves. Because He saves us from our sin.
                        Last edited by Christianbookworm; 03-30-2021, 05:04 PM.
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post

                          It means YHWH saves. Because He saves us from our sin.
                          So if you continue to sin, how can He be said to have saved you from it?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Darfius View Post

                            So if you continue to sin, how can He be said to have saved you from it?
                            Won't be perfect until Heaven.
                            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Hey again Sparko,

                              The church fathers have never had everything nailed down doctrinally, even from the days of the early church when doctrines contrary to Paul's and the disciples' teaching had already corrupted the church. Neither did succeeding centuries of theologians have everything correct. It is not a matter of "pride" as you say, to come to God's Word with open hands, ready to receive teaching from the Spirit alone. When you charge that what I'm presenting comes from pride, this is an accusation that you cannot prove, and one that I cannot offer a defense against either. We don't know one another personally by character, so rather than just guess at motives, it's better to just speak about the words of God alone. I have read through quite a bit of commentaries in my husband's library (he is historicist in eschatology, a Southern Baptist elder, and with a strong affection for the Puritan writers and Reformed doctrine). None of the authors in his library teach point-for-point what I'm saying, but from gleaning bits here and there from their works, and from online research, and especially by referring to scripture as best as I am able to in the Interlinear Greek, all this combines to form a homogenous whole in sync with the scripture. As far as I can tell, there are NO internal contradictions in this paradigm.

                              Revelation 20 speaks of the two resurrections already fulfilled in both AD 33 and the second resurrection soon to come in AD 70, with all the events leading to that near AD 70 resurrection that were "AT HAND" in John's days. That's "presently near" - to THEM.

                              The "thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge" (Rev. 20:4) were the 12 thrones of the disciples that Jesus promised to give them, back in Matthew 19:28. After the "regeneration" when Christ was resurrected in the "First resurrection" and then sat upon the throne of His glory, the disciples on earth were given authority over the affairs of the early church, judging matters of dispute, and establishing Christ's doctrines from the church based in Jerusalem when the "12 tribes of Israel" were still in existence. Think of the case of Ananias and Sapphira, the dispute about circumcision, selecting deacons, distributing charitable donations, etc. These "12 thrones" for the disciples were meant to be a reflection of the "thrones of judgment in Jerusalem, whither the tribes go up; the tribes of the Lord..." back in Psalms 122:4.

                              These 12 thrones for the 12 disciples set the stage for the Revelation 20 context, and anchor the first-century as the main focus of the majority of this chapter. John saw a varied group of saints, both dead AND even some still living at that time, who had either been martyred for God (like the prophets under Jezebel for example), or who had actually been beheaded (like John the Baptist), or who (like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abedneggo) had never given homage to the Sea Beast. That Sea Beast had existed ever since Nebuchadnezzar's time, 666 YEARS PRIOR to the time John was writing Revelation. During that millennium from 968/967 BC until AD 33 (from Solomon's temple foundation stone being laid down until Christ became the Chief Cornerstone of the True Temple at His ascension) a host of saints had remained faithful to God throughout the various 4 world empires that had demanded homage in one way or another to their pagan religions. It doesn't necessarily follow that all these saints themselves had each "reigned in life" with Christ for the ENTIRE period of a thousand years - start to finish. It just means that their lifetime of "reigning" was at some point contemporaneous with the millennium years when Satan was bound. Their faithfulness to God either resulted in being martyred for their faith, or they had naturally died and were succeeded by other saints who also remained faithful for their natural lifetime sometime during those millennium years .

                              The Rev. 20:5 "REMNANT (loipoi) of the dead" who "came to life again" were the ones who formed the "First resurrection". That "REMNANT of the dead" was the Matthew 27:52-53 saints who were raised from the dead along with "Christ the First-fruits". "CHRIST THE FIRSTFRUITS" IS indisputably the "FIRST resurrection" event taking place in time. There were also 144,00 of those Matthew 27 resurrected "First-fruits" who, along with Christ, came out of their tombs in AD 33 at the END of the literal thousand-year millennium (that "remnant" being a comparatively smaller number than the second resurrection to follow in AD 70). At that END of the millennium in AD 33, after the war in heaven (for 3-days / 3 nights), Satan was cast out of heaven down to the earth with his angels when Christ ascended. It was the shed blood of the Lamb that He offered on heaven's mercy seat that morning that "overcame" Satan and erased any ability for Satan to accuse the brethren from then on. It's just as I told Darfius on another post: "The millennium ENDED when Christ ASCENDED, and the Devil DESCENDED. All simultaneously.

                              Since he was kicked out of heaven that morning in AD 33, a wrathful Satan wasted no time, but went out to persecute the early church, knowing he only had a "short time" after AD 33 to do deceptive damage (Rev. 12:12). This is why a persecution from the Jewish leadership sprang up the very same day Stephen was martyred (Acts 8:1). For 3-1/2 years after AD 33, a "flood" of persecution instigated by Saul / Paul raged against men and women of the Jerusalem church. Paul himself said he was "exceedingly mad against them". These persecuted saints "fled into the wilderness" by being scattered from Jerusalem, bringing the gospel with them. When Saul / Paul was converted, that was the "earth swallowing up the waters that the dragon cast out of his mouth". Satan was enraged that his chief opponent to Christ's church had become a believer, so he went out to make war with the "REMNANT of the woman's seed" (the same as the "REMNANT of the dead" Jewish Matthew 27:52-53 saints). These were still present as workers in the early church, because Paul said "we HAVE the FIRST-FRUITS" of the Spirit's work of redeemed men among the church at that time (Rom. 8:23).

                              The White Throne Judgment took place in AD 70 with the dead standing before God. God used the "Lake of Fire" in Jerusalem to "burn up the chaff" of the wicked dead, and also the entire demonic realm that was imprisoned in that city (Rev. 18:2). God said long ago in Isaiah 31:9 that His "FIRE is in ZION, and His FURNACE IN JERUSALEM". That "furnace of fire" in Jerusalem when the city was experiencing its "second death" (since the nation's first death of destruction under the Babylonian invasion) became the location where God exercised vengeance by disposing of His enemies.

                              But that doesn't mean that the White Throne Judgment books cannot be opened once more in the final THIRD resurrection for us. Because "we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad" (II Cor. 5:10). This is a judgment for giving rewards to the believers (or for not receiving them). As several of you have said above, it is not a judgment that condemns the saints to the grave like the fate of the wicked.

                              You may not agree with any of this Sparko, but does it at least clarify a few things that I've said? I hope so. If this only muddies the water further, let me know.
                              Last edited by 3 Resurrections; 03-30-2021, 06:13 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                What about the dead who resurrected before Jesus' resurrection, 3 Resurrections? Most famously Lazarus? Doesn't that throw a wrench into your theory? Elijah raised a boy from the dead long before that.

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