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This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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Christian persecution

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  • Christian persecution

    "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake. It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony. So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, and you will be hated by all because of My name." Luke 21:12-17.


    "Restrictions, harassment, and intimidation towards people who practice their religion increased in every major region of the world in 2012 except the Americas, with Christians the major target, says a new report by the Pew Research Center.

    “Muslims and Jews experienced six-year highs in the number of countries in which they were harassed by national, provincial or local governments,” the study found, but Christians continue to be the world’s most oppressed religious group, with persecution against them reported in 110 countries."

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barb...eligious-group

    We Christians here in America have it pretty good. However, seeing the public and media political firestorm building around the clash of conservative and liberal beliefs, that may be changing sometime in the future.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  • #2
    The part that's interesting here is "to make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute". If this applied to every Christian, it would seem to rule out the practice of studying apologetics. I believe the standard view is that this was specifically applied to the apostles, though.

    Regardless, no Christian should ever take a time of political favor for granted. The disturbing of complacency is a very Christian concept and persecution can come at any time.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

    Comment


    • #3
      The specific condition was being held by authorities for one's faith though. I suppose, like everything else about scripture, it's based on whether Jesus was referring to literal captivity or symbolic rhetoric of opposition in general. Though I don't know what preterists argue about this passage, something tells me that even they interpret it as referring to literal persecution of the apostolic church.
      Last edited by seanD; 02-26-2014, 03:41 PM.
      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seanD View Post
        The specific condition was being held by authorities for one's faith though.
        That's true and my reading of it just now was underemphasizing that portion.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          We know we're getting it right when we're free of genuine opposition or persecution.
          For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
            We know we're getting it right when we're free of genuine opposition or persecution.
            There's an old saying, "if you haven't bumped heads with the devil lately, maybe you and he are going in the same direction".

            2 Tim 3:[12]*Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              There's an old saying, "if you haven't bumped heads with the devil lately, maybe you and he are going in the same direction".

              2 Tim 3:[12]*Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
              We should make friends with all our enemies so we may exhibit perfect Christ-like character.
              For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
                We should make friends with all our enemies so we may exhibit perfect Christ-like character.
                "love your enemies -- after all, YOU made them".
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  "love your enemies -- after all, YOU made them".
                  Only in order to make them friends again. It all has a purpose, you see.
                  For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
                    Only in order to make them friends again. It all has a purpose, you see.
                    Yeah. I get that.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Yeah. I get that.
                      For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That's something that has always troubled me about this country. Why we are the exception and why we have infinite access to knowledge and learning resources (biblical resources, apologetic resources, historical resources, etc., material as far as the eye can see). That's why I believe when it comes upon us, it's going to come in like a freight train.
                        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seanD View Post
                          That's something that has always troubled me about this country. Why we are the exception and why we have infinite access to knowledge and learning resources (biblical resources, apologetic resources, historical resources, etc., material as far as the eye can see). That's why I believe when it comes upon us, it's going to come in like a freight train.
                          Well, I never in my life imagined that one day I might be jeered and verbally assaulted for saying something so benign as "marriage is one man and one woman".
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And the hate that was spewed forth in Austin simply because some Christians gathered to sing Amazing Grace and pray for the unborn....
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Well, I never in my life imagined that one day I might be jeered and verbally assaulted for saying something so benign as "marriage is one man and one woman".
                              As bad as that is, somehow that doesn't seem to be on par with being fed to lions, burned on stakes, starved to death, flayed alive or beheaded. But I see your point and we'll see how it all develops. There's definitely a cultural and social anti-religious vibe rearing its head in the US. Whereas before, Christian suppression (i.e. schools, government facilities, etc.) was a bit more subtle, now it seems to be a lot more direct.
                              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                              Comment

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