Church Models

[Cow Poke]

PLEASE let's have a serious discussion and not derail this into jokes and silliness. PLEASE?

As many of you know, I'm serving in a Church that is in need of "revitalization". (and, so far, it's working! )

I've been to a number of conferences on Church Growth, and I've been paying attention to what other Churches are going, just out of curiosity, because I have LONG believed that I need to lead the Church according to how I feel God is directing, rather than the current fad.

Long story short, our Church had been a "traditional" Church for many years, then the Pastor resigned after 30 years, and they felt like they needed "younger" and "more dynamic".
They called a guy right out of seminary, and he DRASTICALLY changed everything to the "praise and worship" and the "jeans and t-shirt" preaching, etc... like a lot of churches are doing.

As a result, MOST of the older folks left, and NO NEW people came, and the Church nearly died.

I'm not a "fad" person, so I came to fill in while they looked for somebody, and I just "preached Jesus", and we sang the hymns of the cross. The Church began to grow, not necessarily from "old folks coming back", but new people coming in. To my pleasant surprise, YOUNG FAMILIES came, too!

In all of this, "Men's Ministry" has been on my heart for a number of years, and I keep feeling that, while other Churches seem to be trending (or "fadding"?) toward "family Church" models, I seem more and more convinced that my focus needs to be on men. The Early Church was built on men. OTHER religions (like Islam) have MEN as the active "agents", while, in Christian Churches, it seems like women are the predominant force, and many of the men are "on the fringe".

I've been reading a lot of Barna lately, and don't remember if this comes from him, or from some of my other sources, but I remember reading that "if you get the 'Mom", there's a 17% chance you'll get the family ---- if you get the 'Dad', there's a 93% chance you'll get the family.

This obviously would not be to the EXCLUSION of women and children, but I just have this gut feeling that our focus needs to be on men.

Comments?

[One Bad Pig]

Here is the model:

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
Christ the Power and Wisdom of God

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks[b] foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Glory Only in the Lord

26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

Trying to make the church 'attractive' in order to spur 'growth' is penny wise and pound foolish IMO.

Focus on helping the people you have (in other words, helping those who are sick - that is, everybody), and welcoming those who enter. Leave the job of attracting to the Holy Spirit.

[Teallaura]

1) Preach Christ, and Him crucified.

2) Minister where needed (pretty much everywhere, really): look at your congregation - are men reasonably represented or do you notice a group that's absent?

3) Men's ministry can start with amazingly small things. Look around the church. If you were a bachelor, would you have doilies everywhere? Then why are they in the parlor. You have a lovely picture of Jesus stroking a lamb - where's the one of Him driving out the money changers? Does the bulletin board every week have a message about love with cute hearts or some such? Where's the Christian armor? Plenty of fruit and vines everywhere - but no shields or swords. We girls tend to do the decorating - but we sometimes make it too feminine. Change out doilies with arm covers (assuming you ever use the parlor - otherwise, just stick the doilies in a drawer somewhere). Find pictures that show Jesus doing things other than playing with kids and petting lambs and put them on the walls, too (the Men's Sunday School classroom being a good place to start). Et cetera - plenty of things we can change without being 'trendy' that make things more welcoming to men.

[Cow Poke]

1) Preach Christ, and Him crucified.

Well, yeah, I said that....

I'm not a "fad" person, so I came to fill in while they looked for somebody, and I just "preached Jesus",

2) Minister where needed (pretty much everywhere, really): look at your congregation - are men reasonably represented or do you notice a group that's absent?

The men are "nice", but they're not really involved - that's the point. And, yeah, other ministries would continue.

3) Men's ministry can start with amazingly small things. Look around the church. If you were a bachelor, would you have doilies everywhere? Then why are they in the parlor. You have a lovely picture of Jesus stroking a lamb - where's the one of Him driving out the money changers? Does the bulletin board every week have a message about love with cute hearts or some such? Where's the Christian armor? Plenty of fruit and vines everywhere - but no shields or swords. We girls tend to do the decorating - but we sometimes make it too feminine. Change out doilies with arm covers (assuming you ever use the parlor - otherwise, just stick the doilies in a drawer somewhere). Find pictures that show Jesus doing things other than playing with kids and petting lambs and put them on the walls, too (the Men's Sunday School classroom being a good place to start). Et cetera - plenty of things we can change without being 'trendy' that make things more welcoming to men.

I'm just interested in discipling men to be the spiritual heads of their homes. I think that's what's missing. In many churches, the women know more about the Bible than the men do, and are more involved in the work. If men were proper spiritual leaders in their homes, the women and children would be.... I'm still formulating this in my head.

[Cow Poke]

Trying to make the church 'attractive' in order to spur 'growth' is penny wise and pound foolish IMO.

I agree! If I were interested in making the church 'attractive', I might be more interested in what other churches are doing to grow. I don't want artificial or shallow growth.

Focus on helping the people you have (in other words, helping those who are sick - that is, everybody), and welcoming those who enter.

Yeah, that will continue.

Leave the job of attracting to the Holy Spirit.

I think Jesus wants us to be fishers of men, and I'm particularly drawn to that "seek them that are lost" part.

[Raphael]

subbing. will make comments later

[Cow Poke]

subbing. will make comments later

Meanwhile, you'll share your popcorn?

Looking forward to your input.

[One Bad Pig]

I think Jesus wants us to be fishers of men, and I'm particularly drawn to that "seek them that are lost" part.

I think that takes rather less effort on our part then many people seem to think. As long as we show we care (and we should be on the lookout for opportunities to do so), and are willing to let the Holy Spirit work through us rather than attempting to direct everything ourselves, the lost will be drawn to us (or, rather, to Him who is in us).

[Teallaura]

Argh - not what I meant. I have to run - I'll be back to play tomorrow!

[Cow Poke]

I think that takes rather less effort on our part then many people seem to think.

And I agree, but I think many people use that as an excuse to do precious little. "Maybe, by living the Christian life, they'll see Jesus in me, and ask of the hope....." That works where people are actually living a Christian life, but so many times, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the "Christians" and the "lost".

As long as we show we care (and we should be on the lookout for opportunities to do so), and are willing to let the Holy Spirit work through us rather than attempting to direct everything ourselves, the lost will be drawn to us (or, rather, to Him who is in us).

I still think the picture of "fishers of men" is a little more active than passive, but I most certainly agree that the Holy Spirit hsa to do the "work".

[Thoughtful Monk]

And I agree, but I think many people use that as an excuse to do precious little. "Maybe, by living the Christian life, they'll see Jesus in me, and ask of the hope....." That works where people are actually living a Christian life, but so many times, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the "Christians" and the "lost".

I agree. I can count on maybe two hands the number of Christians I've known who live such a life. Somedays I think the attitude was invented by people who wanted to feel they were doing something without actually doing anything.

I still think the picture of "fishers of men" is a little more active than passive, but I most certainly agree that the Holy Spirit hsa to do the "work".

There is something more active about being fishers of men than just living a life. The Holy Spirit has to do the "work" (yeah salvation is an act of God) but there is some piece of human participation in the "work." I just can't put my finger on it or describe it very well.

[One Bad Pig]

And I agree, but I think many people use that as an excuse to do precious little. "Maybe, by living the Christian life, they'll see Jesus in me, and ask of the hope....." That works where people are actually living a Christian life, but so many times, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the "Christians" and the "lost".

True - but when there's precious little difference between the "Christians" and the "lost", will active preaching by the same do much good?

I still think the picture of "fishers of men" is a little more active than passive, but I most certainly agree that the Holy Spirit hsa to do the "work".

Yeah, that's why I stuck in the bit about looking for opportunities to help. They're out there, but most times we're all too practiced at looking the other way.

[Teallaura]

Originally Posted by Teallaura

1) Preach Christ, and Him crucified.

Well, yeah, I said that....

So you did - I’m just affirming it.

Originally Posted by Cow Poke

I'm not a "fad" person, so I came to fill in while they looked for somebody, and I just "preached Jesus",

It’s the most important part - always bears repeating!

2) Minister where needed (pretty much everywhere, really): look at your congregation - are men reasonably represented or do you notice a group that's absent?

The men are "nice", but they're not really involved - that's the point. And, yeah, other ministries would continue.

Okay - gotcha. So it’s not that all the young men stay home, it’s that they are ‘going through the motions’, at least in terms of involvement.

3) Men's ministry can start with amazingly small things. Look around the church. If you were a bachelor, would you have doilies everywhere? Then why are they in the parlor. You have a lovely picture of Jesus stroking a lamb - where's the one of Him driving out the money changers? Does the bulletin board every week have a message about love with cute hearts or some such? Where's the Christian armor? Plenty of fruit and vines everywhere - but no shields or swords. We girls tend to do the decorating - but we sometimes make it too feminine. Change out doilies with arm covers (assuming you ever use the parlor - otherwise, just stick the doilies in a drawer somewhere). Find pictures that show Jesus doing things other than playing with kids and petting lambs and put them on the walls, too (the Men's Sunday School classroom being a good place to start). Et cetera - plenty of things we can change without being 'trendy' that make things more welcoming to men.

I'm just interested in discipling men to be the spiritual heads of their homes. I think that's what's missing. In many churches, the women know more about the Bible than the men do, and are more involved in the work. If men were proper spiritual leaders in their homes, the women and children would be.... I'm still formulating this in my head.

Okay - but first find out what’s putting them off. People don’t engage if they feel they don’t belong - and a decor that screams femininity will make men feel put off. It’s a place to start.

Other places are the types of ministry the church does. Is it all visitation over tea or do the guys get to get out their lawn tools to help someone unable to do for themselves? To feel involved you need to be able to contribute - and few men can put together a formal buffet (some hyperventilate when they see their wives pulling out the good china! ).

[Teallaura]

FYI: The formatting thingie hates me.

[Cow Poke]

Okay - but first find out what’s putting them off.

I think, to a large extent, we don't challenge them. I have, in the past, used "Church work days" to challenge them to get involved, and that has often spilled over into their involvement in worship. I'm just thinking about a more direct way.

People don’t engage if they feel they don’t belong - and a decor that screams femininity will make men feel put off. It’s a place to start.

I've been to Churches where "the ladies" have "homified" the Church -- hanging their quilts in sunday school rooms, "decorating" the foyer, pictures of "sissy" Jesus... that really hasn't been the problem with any Church I've gone to, except one, and that changed shortly after my arrival with the blessings of the congregation.

I think, sometimes, the music "screams femininity -- like the deer song -- makes me want to get my rifle out. : rant : (Tweb is to cheap to allow me to use more than 4 precious smilies! : rant :: mob :: rant :)

Other places are the types of ministry the church does. Is it all visitation over tea or do the guys get to get out their lawn tools to help someone unable to do for themselves?

In other Churches, I have started a ministry I called "The King's Men", and we did all kinds of projects - even replacing the roof for a senior adult couple who was "home bound", digging trench for gas lines, "cutting back the forest" that had engulfed one home.... so, yeah, that's one of the things I can institute here.

To feel involved you need to be able to contribute - and few men can put together a formal buffet (some hyperventilate when they see their wives pulling out the good china! )

We have had "wild game night", where the men bring the dead animals they've killed and grill them, along with some skeet shooting, archery competitions, stuff like that --- that always goes over well.

I guess I'm not really communicating what I want to know.