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Discussion on matters of general mainstream Christian churches. What are the differences between Catholics and protestants? How has the charismatic movement affected the church? Are Southern baptists different from fundamentalist baptists? It is also for discussions about the nature of the church.

This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.

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Salvation for non-Catholic Christians

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  • #16
    What does the Bible say about ignoramuses? Where do they go after death? Not Heaven, I guess, but Hell seems unfair.
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
      Does anyone have any info on official RCC doctrine on this point?

      I saw a Catholic (not on tweb) speak quite strongly about how blasphemous Protestantism was. I want to know what the official RCC statement about Protestantism and salvation is.
      Try here: http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-sta...atholic-church
      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
        What does the Bible say about ignoramuses? Where do they go after death? Not Heaven, I guess, but Hell seems unfair.
        If you just mean those who have not heard then:

        Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

        21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

        and:
        Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

        --
        If you mean mentally handicapped, then I think they are treated like children in God's eyes and are not accountable.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Zymologist View Post

          I saw a Catholic (not on tweb) speak quite strongly about how blasphemous Protestantism was.
          I'd bet my hat that it was nothing more than invectives and partial bible verses that are ripped from their context.
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          Stephen R. Donaldson

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            I'd bet my hat that it was nothing more than invectives and partial bible verses that are ripped from their context.
            There was a great deal of invective, yes. I honestly didn't pay that much attention to it.
            I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
              I'd bet my hat that it was nothing more than invectives and partial bible verses that are ripped from their context.
              You mean riposte?
              Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                I suppose I'm curious, then, what the RCC position is on salvation outside of the Catholic church. I've heard some conflicting views.
                I haven't ever met many Catholics who "know" they are saved -- it's always "the blessed hope of salvation", depending, apparently, on a number of issues.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                • #23
                  My wife and I ate dinner at the Catholic Fish Fry - held every Friday during Lent. They were quite skimpy on the fish, the french fries were greasy, limp and not even warm, and the desserts appeared to be small slices of store-bought cakes and pies. Therefore, their doctrine is corrupt.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    My wife and I ate dinner at the Catholic Fish Fry - held every Friday during Lent. They were quite skimpy on the fish, the french fries were greasy, limp and not even warm, and the desserts appeared to be small slices of store-bought cakes and pies. Therefore, their doctrine is corrupt.


                    And whenever the fried chicken at a Baptist pot luck is greasy and especially when everyone else brings coleslaw or potato salad then our doctrine stands on shaky ground.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      If you mean mentally handicapped, then I think they are treated like children in God's eyes and are not accountable.
                      Thank you. Same question except this time, children and others who are like them, please? Where do they go after death?
                      The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                      [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                        Thank you. Same question except this time, children and others who are like them, please? Where do they go after death?
                        To their eternal destiny.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                          You mean riposte?
                          I was wondering if you'd post in this thread. Have any comment on the accuracy of the OP? I'm checking out Thoughtful Monk's link now.
                          I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                            Thanks. This seems to largely reinforce the blog post in the OP. Am I missing something?
                            I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                              I was wondering if you'd post in this thread. Have any comment on the accuracy of the OP? I'm checking out Thoughtful Monk's link now.
                              I'd have posted sooner and with more substance, but, TWeb has been exhausting recently.

                              The OP blog post is technically correct. For a person to know beyond any reasonable doubt that the Catholic Church is the Church Christ founded and not to want to be part of it? To knowingly reject God's plan for the salvation of mankind and for every individual? What else would one expect after that but Hell?

                              Of course, there's a bit of room for interpretation about what constitutes vincible or invincible ignorance. One certainly can't be faulted for not investigating every single sect that claims to have the One Truth Path to salvation, but if careful and sustained investigation leaves you with no alternative but to believe that the Catholic Church legitimately claims, despite all its evident and not-so-evident flaws, to be the legitimate continuation of the Church Christ founded, then what is your alternative?
                              Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                                I'd have posted sooner and with more substance, but, TWeb has been exhausting recently.

                                The OP blog post is technically correct. For a person to know beyond any reasonable doubt that the Catholic Church is the Church Christ founded and not to want to be part of it? To knowingly reject God's plan for the salvation of mankind and for every individual? What else would one expect after that but Hell?

                                Of course, there's a bit of room for interpretation about what constitutes vincible or invincible ignorance. One certainly can't be faulted for not investigating every single sect that claims to have the One Truth Path to salvation, but if careful and sustained investigation leaves you with no alternative but to believe that the Catholic Church legitimately claims, despite all its evident and not-so-evident flaws, to be the legitimate continuation of the Church Christ founded, then what is your alternative?
                                Is there any official teaching as to the extent of the ignorance necessary for, say, a Protestant? That's a bad way to phrase the question, but I can't think of any other way right now.
                                I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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