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Chrawnus Goes on an Adventure to Learn about Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.

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  • Chrawnus Goes on an Adventure to Learn about Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.

    What the title says. I need something to do in order not to squander my free time away and I thought learning about Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy would be as good an endeavor as any. So if anyone has any good primers (before I go on to more indepth stuff) on either that they could recommend I'd be grateful. Both books (preferably kindle versions) and internet articles are fine by me.
    ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

  • #2
    The Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos (Timothy) Ware (excerpts available here) is a good place to start; it's easily the most popular introduction.

    Eastern Orthodox Christianity: A Western Perspective by Daniel B. Clendenin

    Introducing the Orthodox Church by Fr. Anthony Coniaris was the book used in my catechism class, and is good.

    Introducing Orthodox Theology by Andrew Louth is good, though I wouldn't start with this one.

    You might want to check out what the Finnish Orthodox Church has to say.

    From the Roman Catholic side, Scott Hahn seems to be a popular author. I haven't read any of his stuff, however.
    Last edited by One Bad Pig; 02-24-2015, 10:28 AM.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
      What the title says. I need something to do in order not to squander my free time away and I thought learning about Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy would be as good an endeavor as any. So if anyone has any good primers (before I go on to more indepth stuff) on either that they could recommend I'd be grateful. Both books (preferably kindle versions) and internet articles are fine by me.
      I've actually been meaning to start this exact topic for a while now, I just...haven't yet. So count me as inquisitive also.
      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        The Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos (Timothy) Ware (excerpts available here) is a good place to start; it's easily the most popular introduction.

        Eastern Orthodox Christianity: A Western Perspective by Daniel B. Clendenin

        Introducing the Orthodox Church by Fr. Anthony Coniaris was the book used in my catechism class, and is good.

        Introducing Orthodox Theology by Andrew Louth is good, though I wouldn't start with this one.

        You might want to check out what the Finnish Orthodox Church has to say.

        From the Roman Catholic side, Scott Hahn seems to be a popular author. I haven't read any of his stuff, however.
        I added a couple to my Amazon wishlist.
        I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          What the title says. I need something to do in order not to squander my free time away and I thought learning about Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy would be as good an endeavor as any. So if anyone has any good primers (before I go on to more indepth stuff) on either that they could recommend I'd be grateful. Both books (preferably kindle versions) and internet articles are fine by me.
          I should send my Russian Orthodox friends to visit you, complete with wine and bagels.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            The Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos (Timothy) Ware (excerpts available here) is a good place to start; it's easily the most popular introduction.

            Eastern Orthodox Christianity: A Western Perspective by Daniel B. Clendenin

            Introducing the Orthodox Church by Fr. Anthony Coniaris was the book used in my catechism class, and is good.

            Introducing Orthodox Theology by Andrew Louth is good, though I wouldn't start with this one.

            You might want to check out what the Finnish Orthodox Church has to say.

            From the Roman Catholic side, Scott Hahn seems to be a popular author. I haven't read any of his stuff, however.
            Thank you for the recommendations. I went ahead and purchased all of the books you listed for my kindle. Any recommendations in which particular order I should read them, or is any order as good as any? I'm thinking of going through them in the order you listed them, but if you have a better idea I'm all ears (or maybe it's eyes in this case ).
            ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              The Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos (Timothy) Ware (excerpts available here) is a good place to start; it's easily the most popular introduction.
              I second this book. We read a chunk of it for a VERY brief dive into Church History back when I was in college (the prof had a fascination with Orthodoxy, despite being a dyed-in-the-wool Pentecostal), and I remember finding it to be enlightening (I just need to remember to order a copy for my own uses ).
              Mercenary Maxim 37: There is No 'Overkill.' There is merely 'Open Fire,' and 'I need to Reload.'

              Chaotic Void's Recommended Advice for Trump's Opposition to Punt him from the Oval Office: Git Gud

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                Thank you for the recommendations. I went ahead and purchased all of the books you listed for my kindle. Any recommendations in which particular order I should read them, or is any order as good as any? I'm thinking of going through them in the order you listed them, but if you have a better idea I'm all ears (or maybe it's eyes in this case ).
                IIRC that's the order in which I read them, and I managed to survive the experience.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  IIRC that's the order in which I read them, and I managed to survive the experience.
                  Right.

                  I have work in ~2 hours, but maybe I'll be able to atleast get started with Ware's book before I have to get ready.

                  Thanks again for the recommendations.
                  ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    The Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos (Timothy) Ware (excerpts available here) is a good place to start; it's easily the most popular introduction.

                    Eastern Orthodox Christianity: A Western Perspective by Daniel B. Clendenin

                    Introducing the Orthodox Church by Fr. Anthony Coniaris was the book used in my catechism class, and is good.

                    Introducing Orthodox Theology by Andrew Louth is good, though I wouldn't start with this one.

                    You might want to check out what the Finnish Orthodox Church has to say.

                    From the Roman Catholic side, Scott Hahn seems to be a popular author. I haven't read any of his stuff, however.
                    So, I just finished The Orthodox Church by Ware. It was an interesting read to say the least. I have some minor questions that I would be grateful if you, (or any other Orthodox member) of the forum could answer.

                    Regarding the Real Presence, how similar (or dissimilar) is the Orthodox view compared to the Lutheran view that the Body and Blood of Christ is truly present in the bread and wine, but that the bread and wine never ceases to be bread and wine, i.e the bread is both bread AND the body of Christ at the same time and the wine is both wine AND the blood of Christ at the same time? I guess what I'm asking is, can an Orthodox person hold a view of the Real Presence that is identical to that of a Lutheran and still be considered Orthodox?

                    This next question is one I don't expect you to be able to answer unless you've read up on the roots of the Word of Faith movement* (I.e Copeland, Hagin etc.) but regarding the doctrine of theosis/deification, what would the differences be between the early teaching** of the WoF movement (that Adam started out as a god in paradise but lost that distinction when he fell for the temptation of satan and that we are able to obtain that same sort of godhood for ourselves) and the Orthodox teaching of deification? Reading what Ware has to say about deification doesn't make me nearly as uncomfortable as I am when I read about the teaching of the founders of the WoF movement, but that could merely be because I simply haven't read up on the Orthodox teaching nearly enough (although I guess the opposite is entirely possible too, i.e that further reading about the Orthodox doctrine of theosis will make my suspicions disappear completely )

                    *In other words, feel free to ignore this question if you don't have the necessary knowledge to answer it, or don't feel like researching the issue to such an extent that you would feel comfortable in answering it. I fully expect to have this question answered for me in the course of reading more about Orthodoxy, I just felt like it would be convenient if I could get an answer a bit earlier.

                    **I say early teaching, but I'm not sure if they've ever rescinded this doctrine.
                    Last edited by JonathanL; 02-26-2015, 11:55 PM.
                    ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Books by Joseph Ratzinger, say, Introduction to Christianity, tend to come highly recommended, though I can't say I've read it myself. Otherwise, I could recommend G.K. Chesterton and even C.S. Lewis (high-church anglicans like Lewis can give you a sense of both Catholicism and Orthodoxy given that there was a time when there were anglicans who cared about some sort of communion with Rome and Byzantium).

                      In other news, I find the concept of theosis fascinating and look forward to seeing more discussion about it in this thread. I have my own answer to the question, but I'll leave it to the EOs to explain.

                      The defense of Catholicism is a bit of a cottage industry these days-- there are lots of blogs and books about Catholicism from various perspectives and with various agendas. I could recommend a few of those that I've read over the years... or I could point you to Fr. Robert Barron, who has a website (wordonfire.org) and a number of youtube videos on various topics in which he elucidates Catholic perspectives on any number of things-- he's also produced a documentary series on Catholicism which you could check out. Or you could go back further to Bishop Fulton Sheen, who had a major television program back in the day: you can find a lot of old episodes of his show on youtube.

                      Catholics are so hip and media-savvy compared to those old-fashioned Orthodox
                      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                        Books by Joseph Ratzinger, say, Introduction to Christianity, tend to come highly recommended, though I can't say I've read it myself. Otherwise, I could recommend G.K. Chesterton and even C.S. Lewis (high-church anglicans like Lewis can give you a sense of both Catholicism and Orthodoxy given that there was a time when there were anglicans who cared about some sort of communion with Rome and Byzantium).

                        In other news, I find the concept of theosis fascinating and look forward to seeing more discussion about it in this thread. I have my own answer to the question, but I'll leave it to the EOs to explain.

                        The defense of Catholicism is a bit of a cottage industry these days-- there are lots of blogs and books about Catholicism from various perspectives and with various agendas. I could recommend a few of those that I've read over the years... or I could point you to Fr. Robert Barron, who has a website (wordonfire.org) and a number of youtube videos on various topics in which he elucidates Catholic perspectives on any number of things-- he's also produced a documentary series on Catholicism which you could check out. Or you could go back further to Bishop Fulton Sheen, who had a major television program back in the day: you can find a lot of old episodes of his show on youtube.

                        Catholics are so hip and media-savvy compared to those old-fashioned Orthodox
                        Thanks for the answer. I'll get back to this post after I've read up on and digested the books OBP recommended on the Orthodox faith.
                        ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                          Catholics are so hip and media-savvy compared to those old-fashioned Orthodox
                          To be fair to the the Orthodox the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America does have it's own YT channel (and they even have a playlist called "Discovering Orthodox Christianity" which I'm intending to watch after reading OBP's books recommendations) so they're not completely out of touch with the possibilities of the interwebz.
                          ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                            So, I just finished The Orthodox Church by Ware. It was an interesting read to say the least. I have some minor questions that I would be grateful if you, (or any other Orthodox member) of the forum could answer.

                            Regarding the Real Presence, how similar (or dissimilar) is the Orthodox view compared to the Lutheran view that the Body and Blood of Christ is truly present in the bread and wine, but that the bread and wine never ceases to be bread and wine, i.e the bread is both bread AND the body of Christ at the same time and the wine is both wine AND the blood of Christ at the same time? I guess what I'm asking is, can an Orthodox person hold a view of the Real Presence that is identical to that of a Lutheran and still be considered Orthodox?
                            As far as I can tell, yes.
                            This next question is one I don't expect you to be able to answer unless you've read up on the roots of the Word of Faith movement* (I.e Copeland, Hagin etc.) but regarding the doctrine of theosis/deification, what would the differences be between the early teaching** of the WoF movement (that Adam started out as a god in paradise but lost that distinction when he fell for the temptation of satan and that we are able to obtain that same sort of godhood for ourselves) and the Orthodox teaching of deification? Reading what Ware has to say about deification doesn't make me nearly as uncomfortable as I am when I read about the teaching of the founders of the WoF movement, but that could merely be because I simply haven't read up on the Orthodox teaching nearly enough (although I guess the opposite is entirely possible too, i.e that further reading about the Orthodox doctrine of theosis will make my suspicions disappear completely )

                            *In other words, feel free to ignore this question if you don't have the necessary knowledge to answer it, or don't feel like researching the issue to such an extent that you would feel comfortable in answering it. I fully expect to have this question answered for me in the course of reading more about Orthodoxy, I just felt like it would be convenient if I could get an answer a bit earlier.

                            **I say early teaching, but I'm not sure if they've ever rescinded this doctrine.
                            I'm not familiar with the early WoF doctrine. In Orthodox belief, Adam was created without flaw, with the free will to choose to be filled with the grace of God or reject it. Theosis is the process of becoming like God, as we are made in His image and likeness (Gen. 1:26-7); it is synonymous with sanctification. There is a distinction between God's essence, which is fundamental to His being uncreated and we cannot therefore acquire, and His energy, which emanates from Him. As we become like God, and our will aligns more closely we His, we are divinized, or filled with His energy (also known as His grace). This is the energy that emanated from Christ in the Transfiguration. Many Orthodox people, especially monastics, have been so rapt in prayer that they have seen this light, and even glow with it themselves from within (this takes extreme humility - the merest thought of pride extinguishes it immediately).
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                              To be fair to the the Orthodox the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America does have it's own YT channel (and they even have a playlist called "Discovering Orthodox Christianity" which I'm intending to watch after reading OBP's books recommendations) so they're not completely out of touch with the possibilities of the interwebz.
                              You could also check out the Orthodox Studies here (a church I go to sometimes when they have services my church doesn't).
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment

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