WHY do you go to Church?

[Cow Poke]

Soup kitchens also put a face on the need that's out there. So many Christians who live in nicer communities may not recognize just what is going out there, and it reminds us that there are these people that God has called us to serve.

We have a kinda-sorata "upscale" soup kitchen. It's actually a downtown restaurant that charges normal prices for meals for those who can afford it, but the "kitchen staff" is comprised of a few professionals, but then a bunch of the "down and outters" who are trying to "get back up" and are learning culinary skills. Meals are free for those who can't afford them, but they have a very nice gift shop selling "upscale" items that were donated to them. I actually found a really neat authentic Air Force leather bomber jacket (looked like 50 mission crush) for $75.00!

Through a local college (Blinn), the people who work there can earn some kind of culinary certificate, and there are Restaurants in the area signed on to giving them a chance when they "graduate".

All in all, I'm really pleased with the community efforts in ministering to the poor, and rather than try to duplicate them, we just "join up" where we can.

[One Bad Pig]

Understood. (I mean, I understand that it's too confusing for me to see simply. got an ORG CHART? (just kidding))

Heh. There's a running joke that only God knows how many Orthodox jurisdictions there are.

It's STILL on my bucket list to visit an Orthodox Church and/or Priest.

[Cow Poke]

Heh. There's a running joke that only God knows how many Orthodox jurisdictions there are.

I'll ask Him that right after I ask who wrote Hebrews.

[Just Some Dude]

We have a kinda-sorata "upscale" soup kitchen. It's actually a downtown restaurant that charges normal prices for meals for those who can afford it, but the "kitchen staff" is comprised of a few professionals, but then a bunch of the "down and outters" who are trying to "get back up" and are learning culinary skills. Meals are free for those who can't afford them, but they have a very nice gift shop selling "upscale" items that were donated to them. I actually found a really neat authentic Air Force leather bomber jacket (looked like 50 mission crush) for $75.00!

Through a local college (Blinn), the people who work there can earn some kind of culinary certificate, and there are Restaurants in the area signed on to giving them a chance when they "graduate".

All in all, I'm really pleased with the community efforts in ministering to the poor, and rather than try to duplicate them, we just "join up" where we can.

Sounds awesome.

As for what I wish from churches, I'd like to see more Psalm singing and chanting (not just one) from the Protestant churches. Heck, I'd just plain like to see lots of songs and chants taken out of all parts of the Scriptures being used in Sunday worship and in mainstream Christian music.

[Catholicity]

I'd like to see more liturgy, but then again, I could probably just get up really early and force myself to attend the 8:15 am. I can understand that contemporary music speaks to some people I think its too noisy. But I'm not really there for me, I'm there for God and what glorifies Him

[Thoughtful Monk]

I hear so much complaining about "what I don't get from Church"... not enough depth, "I'm not being fed", "I don't go because it doesn't do anything for me".

Is it POSSIBLE that the reason you SHOULD go is because you have something to GIVE?

Seriously, don't we all have talents, spiritual gifts, abilities, etc.....

"The preacher doesn't teach aplogetics" -- volunteer to teach a Bible Class.

I have never seen such a "what's in it for ME" attitude amongst the brethren..... To me, Church should be like a hospital -- SICK people go there. People who need loved, encouraged, discipled, nurtured, taught. And those of us who have some degree of spiritual maturity can GIVE.

I think if we ever get to the point where we "ask not what my Church can do for me... ask what I can do.....*"



*with apologies to JFK

Spoken like a true pastor, Cow Poke, trying to get people to volunteer and do more at the church. Here's my experience at church...

1. Having my wife go the pastor and church leadership to ask that they take time to fellowship with me and get an answer of NO, WE WILL NOT FOLLOWSHIP WITH YOUR HUSBAND.

2. Being a member of another church for a long period, participanting in nearly all the church activities, events, services, doing the projection on sunday morning, doing the sermon slides, leading some ministries on occassion. Then I lose my job in general layoff at my company and unemployed for nearly a year and all the church (corporately or individual members) ever did for my wife and me was a THANKSGIVING BASKET.

3. Asking church members to help me on something and get a yes. Later I go to ask them for that help and get "F-YOU"

So do not come to me with this attitude of church is one way street of I give to it (corporation or individual members) and neither gives nothing back. This statement of yours "I think if we ever get to the point where we "ask not what my Church can do for me... ask what I can do....." is a LIE FROM THE PIT OF HELL ITSELF. Church is suppose to be a community where it is mutual building up of people (Hebrews 5:13 for example) and supporting one another. I have not seen a church that does this well for about 25 years now.

It comes down to the modern consumerism we have: the people now what they can get from the church but the church leadership now views the people (members) as something for the church to consume. The church needs (probably desparetely) to get back to being community.

PS I don't go to church. Among other reasons, I have some anger church issues I haven't worked through.

[robrecht]

To worship God and feel close to Jesus by celebrating the Eucharist with other believers.

[Andius]

I gather with the Church to worship with fellow brothers and sisters, learn or review about God's teachings, and also, to delight in the company of fellow disciples.

Having been "Churchless" for a long time, to have no fellow brothers and sister to gather with, is a such an incomplete and hollow thing, that's something I learned during that dreadfully lonely time. The bond of fellowship one has with fellow believers, definitely goes far more than just a mere friendship, a bond that quite frankly, though I have friends who be for outsiders of the Church, my friendship with them, I must admit, is not as deep or intimate than with what I have with fellow disciples.

[Cow Poke]

Accountability. I think that's one reason I go to Church, and ALSO, during my rebellion, why I did NOT go.

[One Bad Pig]

Spoken like a true pastor, Cow Poke, trying to get people to volunteer and do more at the church. Here's my experience at church...

1. Having my wife go the pastor and church leadership to ask that they take time to fellowship with me and get an answer of NO, WE WILL NOT FOLLOWSHIP WITH YOUR HUSBAND.

2. Being a member of another church for a long period, participanting in nearly all the church activities, events, services, doing the projection on sunday morning, doing the sermon slides, leading some ministries on occassion. Then I lose my job in general layoff at my company and unemployed for nearly a year and all the church (corporately or individual members) ever did for my wife and me was a THANKSGIVING BASKET.

3. Asking church members to help me on something and get a yes. Later I go to ask them for that help and get "F-YOU"

So do not come to me with this attitude of church is one way street of I give to it (corporation or individual members) and neither gives nothing back. This statement of yours "I think if we ever get to the point where we "ask not what my Church can do for me... ask what I can do....." is a LIE FROM THE PIT OF HELL ITSELF. Church is suppose to be a community where it is mutual building up of people (Hebrews 5:13 for example) and supporting one another. I have not seen a church that does this well for about 25 years now.

It comes down to the modern consumerism we have: the people now what they can get from the church but the church leadership now views the people (members) as something for the church to consume. The church needs (probably desparetely) to get back to being community.

PS I don't go to church. Among other reasons, I have some anger church issues I haven't worked through.

With all due respect, your post is largely an example of the consumerism you so decry. Yes, we as humans tend to have a 'quid pro quo" attitude about giving, but biblically we are held to a higher standard.

34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.

[Thoughtful Monk]

With all due respect, your post is largely an example of the consumerism you so decry. Yes, we as humans tend to have a 'quid pro quo" attitude about giving, but biblically we are held to a higher standard.

And with all due respect, get to know me better before dismissing me in one sentence as a whining cry baby.

To back to the original post:

I have never seen such a "what's in it for ME" attitude amongst the brethren..... To me, Church should be like a hospital -- SICK people go there. People who need loved, encouraged, discipled, nurtured, taught. And those of us who have some degree of spiritual maturity can GIVE.

Most people are not all mature or all sick. Everyone has areas where they are mature and areas where they are sick. I am mature in many areas but I am sick and need help in others. My experience though once you are pegged as mature, you can't be sick anymore. I am sorry but have been part of too many churches where I am tolerated because of the money I puit into the offering plate and I fill a ministry gap. But when I come asking to be loved, encouraged, or disciplied, I get nothing.

[Cow Poke]

Spoken like a true pastor, Cow Poke, trying to get people to volunteer and do more at the church. Here's my experience at church...

1. Having my wife go the pastor and church leadership to ask that they take time to fellowship with me and get an answer of NO, WE WILL NOT FOLLOWSHIP WITH YOUR HUSBAND.

2. Being a member of another church for a long period, participanting in nearly all the church activities, events, services, doing the projection on sunday morning, doing the sermon slides, leading some ministries on occassion. Then I lose my job in general layoff at my company and unemployed for nearly a year and all the church (corporately or individual members) ever did for my wife and me was a THANKSGIVING BASKET.

3. Asking church members to help me on something and get a yes. Later I go to ask them for that help and get "F-YOU"

Wow, TM... so sorry. Yeah, sounds like you have some real anger issues, and have had some bad experiences with Church.

I have to wonder, though, if there's something in the way you carry yourself that comes across differently than you intend.

So do not come to me with this attitude of church is one way street of I give to it (corporation or individual members) and neither gives nothing back.

I certainly didn't mean it that way, TM --- in the process of a Church community, with more people "giving", there will be some "receiving".

This statement of yours "I think if we ever get to the point where we "ask not what my Church can do for me... ask what I can do....." is a LIE FROM THE PIT OF HELL ITSELF. Church is suppose to be a community where it is mutual building up of people (Hebrews 5:13 for example) and supporting one another. I have not seen a church that does this well for about 25 years now.

A lie from the pit of hell, TM?
Acts 28:[35]*I have showed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

When we give with a proper attitude, and correct motives, we are blessed.

It comes down to the modern consumerism we have: the people now what they can get from the church but the church leadership now views the people (members) as something for the church to consume. The church needs (probably desparetely) to get back to being community.

My Church is.

PS I don't go to church. Among other reasons, I have some anger church issues I haven't worked through.

This just doesn't sound like you, TM. I'm very sorry you've had problems with the Church. If there's anything I can do, please let me know, but again --- I certainly didn't mean to offend you in any way.

[Cow Poke]

And with all due respect, get to know me better before dismissing me in one sentence as a whining cry baby.

Please read your post over again, TM.... it really sounds quite bitter. I'm wondering if I have done something to you, or caused you to be angry at me.

[One Bad Pig]

And with all due respect, get to know me better before dismissing me in one sentence as a whining cry baby.

Interesting that you read that into my sentence. Your three examples of problems were all what you were not getting out of church. I was just hoping to get you to step back and re-think how you're approaching church when you manifestly don't like that approach in others.

Most people are not all mature or all sick. Everyone has areas where they are mature and areas where they are sick. I am mature in many areas but I am sick and need help in others. My experience though once you are pegged as mature, you can't be sick anymore. I am sorry but have been part of too many churches where I am tolerated because of the money I puit into the offering plate and I fill a ministry gap. But when I come asking to be loved, encouraged, or disciplied, I get nothing.

Discipleship is an area where Orthodoxy has really helped me. Every time I go to confession, the priest has words of wisdom for me. I have confessed to several different priests, and the only one who just provided absolution had a very limited grasp of English. In the Orthodox tradition, even priests and bishops (who are considered mature) go to confession.

[RBerman]

The mutuality aspect makes this discussion difficult over the internet, because we don't really know each other. We should have an attitude of servanthood, rather than church first and foremost being about what we get out of it. At the same time, if the edification is not actually mutual, then there's clearly a problem. If I sat down to a meal that never was served, or that was rancid, or that was nothing but junk food, my hunger instinct would not allow me to give up on eating. I would eat elsewhere; the hunger would grow and grow until sated. I've visited plenty of churches and thought, "I prefer my own church," but relatively few of which I thought, "If this were the only church in town, I would just stay home."

When someone says, "There are no good churches, so I don't go," in most places in North America that would reflect poorly on the speaker rather than the community. There may well be exceptions. But typically, when someone comes to my church with terrible stories about how bad all the other churches are, more likely than not they'll be telling bad stories about my church too somewhere else, next year.