Originally posted by mossrose
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This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostOne of my favourite hymns is The Church's One Foundation.
The last verse is pertinent to what you are asking me. I believe that all believers are saints, living or dead, not just those whom the Catholic Church canonizes.
Those already in the presence of the Lord are at rest, while we who are alive are still struggling with the presence of sin in our lives. They have achieved perfect holiness while we still struggle with our sin nature. One day we will be like them.
We have union with God, as do they. We have sweet communion with them because we are all part of that body of Christ, the Church, whether we are still in this life or have passed into glory.
I do not believe that any of those members of the body of Christ who are in His presence even care about what we are doing or thinking or that they hear us praying to them. They are focused on the worship of God.
The communion of the saints in the Apostle's Creed is, then, imo, referring to not only the fellowship of the body of Christ still living, but that union in Christ with those who have died as part of the same body.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI wonder if the less educated Catholics who buy these believe they have some special, blessed properties to them. It seems like it'd be easy to become superstitious with these things.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIf they've been blessed by a priest, and that blessing does anything, then to that extent they have blessed properties to them. I agree that superstition is possible with those less educated, but IMO that's a problem in any religious group's less educated members.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
Not entirely sure about this, as we are all on this side of the final Judgment.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Agreed.
We are all in the presence of Christ.
And I do not think that, even in eternity, we will be so focused on the worship of God that we ignore everybody else completely
We shall have to agree to disagree on this one, then.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostThe redeemed have already been judged for their sin, the only judgment left for us is for our works, as per 1 Cor. 3.
Those who have died are already in glory and yes, they will face that "works judgment" with the rest of us. But judgement for sin occurred when we repented and accepted the gift of salvation through faith in Christ.
Originally posted by OBPWe are all in the presence of Christ.
Sort of. Not sure how a disembodied soul can be said to be "physically" present.
Originally posted by OBPAnd I do not think that, even in eternity, we will be so focused on the worship of God that we ignore everybody else completely.
Originally posted by Rom 6:5For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrectionEnter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostI wonder how widespread these kinds of candles are (with pictures of saints and symbolic colors)? Maybe they are more prevalent among Hispanic Catholics? I've never seen them in the parts of the US, Europe and Canada where I've lived.
## I've seen them in Catholic bookshops in the UK, in both Scotland & England - so the decoration is not a purely Hispanic thing.
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