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Discussion on matters of general mainstream Christian churches. What are the differences between Catholics and protestants? How has the charismatic movement affected the church? Are Southern baptists different from fundamentalist baptists? It is also for discussions about the nature of the church.

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Candles

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  • #16
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
    So, do they have to be special candles you buy, or can I take an old one I have around here and glue a picture of somebody on it and then pray to that person?
    I wonder if the less educated Catholics who buy these believe they have some special, blessed properties to them. It seems like it'd be easy to become superstitious with these things.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
      One of my favourite hymns is The Church's One Foundation.

      The last verse is pertinent to what you are asking me. I believe that all believers are saints, living or dead, not just those whom the Catholic Church canonizes.

      Those already in the presence of the Lord are at rest, while we who are alive are still struggling with the presence of sin in our lives. They have achieved perfect holiness while we still struggle with our sin nature. One day we will be like them.
      Not entirely sure about this, as we are all on this side of the final Judgment.
      We have union with God, as do they. We have sweet communion with them because we are all part of that body of Christ, the Church, whether we are still in this life or have passed into glory.
      Agreed.
      I do not believe that any of those members of the body of Christ who are in His presence even care about what we are doing or thinking or that they hear us praying to them. They are focused on the worship of God.
      We are all in the presence of Christ. And I do not think that, even in eternity, we will be so focused on the worship of God that we ignore everybody else completely.
      The communion of the saints in the Apostle's Creed is, then, imo, referring to not only the fellowship of the body of Christ still living, but that union in Christ with those who have died as part of the same body.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        I wonder if the less educated Catholics who buy these believe they have some special, blessed properties to them. It seems like it'd be easy to become superstitious with these things.
        If they've been blessed by a priest, and that blessing does anything, then to that extent they have blessed properties to them. I agree that superstition is possible with those less educated, but IMO that's a problem in any religious group's less educated members.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          If they've been blessed by a priest, and that blessing does anything, then to that extent they have blessed properties to them. I agree that superstition is possible with those less educated, but IMO that's a problem in any religious group's less educated members.
          I'm thinking those who just buy them off the grocery store shelf and take them home and believe they have some sort of magical properties that will increase the likelihood that their prayers will be received. In the Protestant tradition this might be equivalent to prayer mats and anointing oil (I don't usually find those in stores though). Everytime I pass these types of candles in the store it makes me feel a bit, I don't know, uneasy, or sad or something.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post


            Not entirely sure about this, as we are all on this side of the final Judgment.
            The redeemed have already been judged for their sin, the only judgment left for us is for our works, as per 1 Cor. 3.

            10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.

            11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

            12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

            13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.

            14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.

            15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
            Those who have died are already in glory and yes, they will face that "works judgment" with the rest of us. But judgement for sin occurred when we repented and accepted the gift of salvation through faith in Christ.

            Agreed.


            We are all in the presence of Christ.
            Yes, but not physically.

            And I do not think that, even in eternity, we will be so focused on the worship of God that we ignore everybody else completely
            .


            We shall have to agree to disagree on this one, then.




            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
              The redeemed have already been judged for their sin, the only judgment left for us is for our works, as per 1 Cor. 3.

              Those who have died are already in glory and yes, they will face that "works judgment" with the rest of us. But judgement for sin occurred when we repented and accepted the gift of salvation through faith in Christ.
              I think you're reading a fair amount into that passage. We're getting rather far afield, however.
              Originally posted by OBP
              We are all in the presence of Christ.
              Yes, but not physically. [/quote]
              Sort of. Not sure how a disembodied soul can be said to be "physically" present.
              Originally posted by OBP
              And I do not think that, even in eternity, we will be so focused on the worship of God that we ignore everybody else completely.
              We shall have to agree to disagree on this one, then.
              I urge you to consider re-thinking that. Interpersonal relationships in scripture are second only to our relationship with God.
              Originally posted by Rom 6:5
              For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection
              In the resurrection, we will be united together. If we are so focused on the worship of God that we ignore everything and everyone else completely, then that has little meaning. Why have a new heavens and new earth if no one's going to notice it?
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                I wonder how widespread these kinds of candles are (with pictures of saints and symbolic colors)? Maybe they are more prevalent among Hispanic Catholics? I've never seen them in the parts of the US, Europe and Canada where I've lived.

                ## I've seen them in Catholic bookshops in the UK, in both Scotland & England - so the decoration is not a purely Hispanic thing.

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