Heretics

[Paprika]

John did make it a point that the one who is Christ was also God: " He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and the world did not know Him." -- John 1:10, Modern King James Version.

No doubt, but did he make it a point that it is essential to believe in him as God so that one might be saved? Did Paul?

[Jedidiah]

Colossians 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. ESV

[37818]

"He"? Or "he"?

Despite the later emphasis on the ontology of God, the gospel is not primarily about Jesus' God-ontology but his Messiahship and his death and resurrection (and one might add his return for judgment).

The capitalization of the personal pronoun "he" is to indicate reference to Deity and is by no means practiced by everybody and not practiced by all Bible translators. The best I can tell, it was first done in the 20th century. I do not have any known examples earlier. It is not any kind of essential to do so.

John did make it a point that the one who is Christ was also God: " He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and the world did not know Him." -- John 1:10, Modern King James Version.

[Paprika]

as a new Christian I did not accept the Godhood of Christ.

Heretic!

[Jedidiah]

Despite the later emphasis on the ontology of God, the gospel is not primarily about Jesus' God-ontology but his Messiahship and his death and resurrection (and one might add his return for judgment).

This is quite true. The gospel is not PRIMARILY about this, but it is pretty clearly true if you look at all seriously. As I have shared on TWeb before; as a new Christian I did not accept the Godhood of Christ. I set out to show from the Bible that it was not true. The Bible corrected me.

[Paprika]

". . . I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [He], ye shall die in your sins. . . ." -- John 8:24.

"He"? Or "he"?

Despite the later emphasis on the ontology of God, the gospel is not primarily about Jesus' God-ontology but his Messiahship and his death and resurrection (and one might add his return for judgment).

[Obsidian]

Other passages in the gospels make it clear that some of them explained his miracles as sorcery.

[fm93]

John 8:23-24 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

It sounds like he may just be saying that if they doubt that he is the one from above, then they will die in their sins.

In that passage, however, Jesus is talking to people who've already seen him do miracles and profess certain claims about himself. For them, there would be no rational reason to believe otherwise. I'm not sure that the passage should be read as saying literally anyone at all who doesn't believe it will die in their sins.

[Obsidian]

John 8:23-24 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

It sounds like he may just be saying that if they doubt that he is the one from above, then they will die in their sins.

[37818]

I agree that Arianism contradicts Scripture, but I do not see how Arianism is the type of heresy that "puts one outside the Body of Christ".

". . . I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [He], ye shall die in your sins. . . ." -- John 8:24.

". . . Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. . . ." -- 2 John 9.

". . . Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: . . . " -- Matthew 7:21-23.

[Paprika]

You really can't see how a heretic isn't a real Christian? I just gave examples of how the NT writers had false teachers, and those who followed them as not Christian. They condemned them in very strong terms. Their teachings are foolishness, and those who follow them end in ruin. What they teach was even said to be "no gospel at all", meaning it wasn't Christianity at all.

I do agree that doubtless some heretics are not real Christians: my point is that many people we would regard as Christians do hold heretical beliefs. These would be heretics, and according to you these would not be "real Christians".

Arianism denies that Christ is LORD, which is not in any way shape or form what Christianity teaches. As for "damnable heresies" I mean the kind that put one outside the Body of Christ, and would mean that they are not saved.

I agree that Arianism contradicts Scripture, but I do not see how Arianism is the type of heresy that "puts one outside the Body of Christ".