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Plotting Nicea III Could Be Pope Francis's Masterstroke

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  • Plotting Nicea III Could Be Pope Francis's Masterstroke

    Wow, this is fantastic news. I always knew Francis had it in him.

    Plotting Nicea III Could Be Pope Francis's Masterstroke

    Get your tickets now!
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

  • #2
    Looks like some in the Vatican were caught off guard:
    http://www.religionnews.com/2014/06/...tholic-summit/

    Even as of Friday:

    "[T]he Vatican’s chief spokesman, Rev. Federico Lombardi, told Religion News Service on Friday ... the 2025 meeting is not a “fait accompli,” and cautioned that it is “very early to jump to conclusions.”

    http://www.religionnews.com/2014/06/...ding-bromance/
    Last edited by robrecht; 06-08-2014, 10:46 AM.
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

    Comment


    • #3
      This couples well with these news:

      http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...e-Vatican.html

      For the first time in history, Islamic prayers and readings from the Quran will be heard at the Vatican on Sunday, in a move by Pope Francis to usher in peace between Israelis and Palestinians.
      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
        See already what Pope John Paul II began in Assisi back in the late 80s, but I understand your special sensitivity to the sacred character of the Basilica of St Peters in Rome.
        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

        Comment


        • #5
          Someone might want to speak to people in Turkey first. I'm told that there is currently no functioning Christian church in Nicea and that even the museum of ancient and Christian art, a former chuch has been seized and will be re-opened as a mosque again.
          βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
          ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

          אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by robrecht View Post
            See already what Pope John Paul II began in Assisi back in the late 80s, but I understand your special sensitivity to the sacred character of the Basilica of St Peters in Rome.
            Yes, "sensitivity". That's one way to put the pope bringing prayers to pagan gods into his church.

            I looked up Assisi but I don't see anything about the prayer taking place in Catholic churches. If it did then it's just as terrible a precedent. Maybe Francis can pick up another precedent to follow up on while he's at it.
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
              Would it be acceptable for the Catholic Church if the readings from the Quran include the part where it teaches the Trinity is not true?

              O people of the Book! Commit no excess in your religion; Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and his word, which he bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from him: so believe in Allah and his apostles. Say not "Trinity"; desist; it will be better for you; for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to him: (for exalted is he) above having a son. To him belong all things in the heavens and on the earth. And enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs (Sura 4:171).
              Last edited by foudroyant; 06-08-2014, 11:53 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                Wow, this is fantastic news. I always knew Francis had it in him.

                Plotting Nicea III Could Be Pope Francis's Masterstroke

                Get your tickets now!
                Citing the Daily Beast is honestly, as close to blasphemy as you can get, without it actually being blasphemy.

                Still, I wonder if he will do anything about the various complaints of Vatican 2's "Dignatious Humanus" contradicting earlier Church teaching (As even he admits, it does)? That's pretty much the only major problem I have with that council.
                Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

                -Thomas Aquinas

                I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

                -Hernando Cortez

                What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

                -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                  Yes, "sensitivity". That's one way to put the pope bringing prayers to pagan gods into his church.

                  I looked up Assisi but I don't see anything about the prayer taking place in Catholic churches. If it did then it's just as terrible a precedent. Maybe Francis can pick up another precedent to follow up on while he's at it.
                  I will respond to this post, but please do not take this thread in a direction away from the proposed synod in Nicea in 2025. Starting in 1988 (I believe), John Paul II started having a yearly day of prayer with other Christian groups, Jews, and other non-Christian religions. I don't know what part of the gatherings, if any, took places in churches, but it would not bother me if they did. At the time, Franciscan churches around the world were encouraged to have similar gatherings in their churches. I organized the first one in my area. Everyone thought it was great, except for one of the priests who objected to the removal of the altar for the occasion. One of the catholics suggested that move. I think Muslims worship Allah, which is an Arabic form of the semitic title of God, El and Elohim in Hebrew, Ela' in Aramaic, and trace their spiritual ancestry back to Abraham through Ishmael so I do not consider Allah to be pagan gods.
                  Last edited by robrecht; 06-08-2014, 06:54 PM.
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Post
                    Citing the Daily Beast is honestly, as close to blasphemy as you can get, without it actually being blasphemy.

                    Still, I wonder if he will do anything about the various complaints of Vatican 2's "Dignatious Humanus" [Dignitatis humanae] contradicting earlier Church teaching (As even he admits, it does)? That's pretty much the only major problem I have with that council.
                    I think you need to look up the definition of blasphemy. Candida Moss, the author of the piece, is a professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at the University of Notre Dame, which is the most eminent Catholic university in the United States, 'though I'm sure there are some who would object to the views of many Catholic theologians teaching there and elsewhere.
                    Last edited by robrecht; 06-08-2014, 12:59 PM.
                    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                      I think you need to look up the definition of blasphemy. Candida Moss, the author of the piece, is a professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at the University of Notre Dame, which is the most eminent Catholic university in the United States, 'though I'm sure there are some who would object to the views of many Catholic theologians teaching there and elsewhere.
                      I was making a joke with the blasphemy line, in case you couldn't tell. As for his decision, I'm not sure. I don't think a simple reading of their book will satisfy them. These Islamics have been going on Jihads ever since the religion was created, though it might, at the very least, temper some of the hostilities.
                      Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

                      -Thomas Aquinas

                      I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

                      -Hernando Cortez

                      What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

                      -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                        Would it be acceptable for the Catholic Church if the readings from the Quran include the part where it teaches the Trinity is not true?

                        O people of the Book! Commit no excess in your religion; Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and his word, which he bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from him: so believe in Allah and his apostles. Say not "Trinity"; desist; it will be better for you; for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to him: (for exalted is he) above having a son. To him belong all things in the heavens and on the earth. And enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs (Sura 4:171).
                        No, I'm sure it would not be, 'though they probably would not mind some reverential words about Mary. As I said to Darth, please do not derail this thread from the topic of the proposed synod in Nicea in 2025.
                        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Post
                          I was making a joke with the blasphemy line, in case you couldn't tell. As for his decision, I'm not sure. I don't think a simple reading of their book will satisfy them. These Islamics have been going on Jihads ever since the religion was created, though it might, at the very least, temper some of the hostilities.
                          Oh, sorry, didn't realize you were joking. Please do not make this thread about Islam.
                          βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                          ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                          אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                            Oh, sorry, didn't realize you were joking. Please do not make this thread about Islam.
                            Still, that issue with that declaration in Vatican 2. Since it's not actually the main purpose of the Council, I won't get my hopes up.
                            Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

                            -Thomas Aquinas

                            I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

                            -Hernando Cortez

                            What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

                            -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                              I will respond to this post, but please do not take this thread in a direction away from the proposed in synod in Nicea in 2025.
                              I brought it up because it's relevant with regards to what Francis might do there. Maybe he wants to do something good like ending priest celibacy or banning gays from the priesthood, but I'm fairly skeptical.
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                              Comment

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