Originally posted by Sparko
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream Christian churches. What are the differences between Catholics and protestants? How has the charismatic movement affected the church? Are Southern baptists different from fundamentalist baptists? It is also for discussions about the nature of the church.
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.
Forum Rules: Here
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Indulgences
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostOK. so if the church has this power to alleviate punishment, why does it not just use that power to help everyone? Why do they use it as a currency to get things from people?
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View PostThe Catholic teaching is that, for any sin committed, after it is forgiven, you still must do penance for it by spending the corresponding time in purgatory (whatever that may be). Say you committed a sin such as murder, and you're really sorry for it. If you do something to help they Church, or its people, to prove yourself, they can alleviate you of the temporal punishment (AKA time in purgatory) for that sin. That's what an "Indulgence" does.
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View PostWell, if you want scriptural support of purgatory, I can give you that, though I don't want to derail the thread.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostFWIW, I find that particular question very interesting, so (whether it's relevant or not) I, at least, would read the exchange with great interest.
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Post
Irrelevant to the case at hand.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThat doesn't tell me what they DO. If someone gets an indulgence, what does that mean for them?
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI didn't miss that part; in fact, it prompted my follow-on question. If the RCC taught people properly what they did, then the system would not have been open for abuse, which appears to answer my follow-on question.
I question how clearly the higher-ups did not condone this improper meaning at the time. Later attempts at rehabilitation are good, but do not establish that.
I'd like some support for the assertion that sins which are already forgiven require temporal punishment.
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostInitially, they were supposed to encourage support for good works, eg, hospitals, alms giving as a concrete expression of repentance. But, alas, there are no short cuts and you generally can't trust sales men. The Kingdom of God does not need aluminum siding.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostOK so what DO indulgences do?
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If the Roman Catholic Church taught people properly, there would be no war, no hunger, no injustice of any kind. Alas, we have failed miserably. We should all repent and believe in the Kingdom of God. By the way, Purgatory was invented as a place of repentance for those of us who are slow learners. We may need a little more time. For those of us who believe that God is at least as merciful as my first grade teacher, Sister Larkin, peace be upon her.
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