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Discussion on matters of general mainstream Christian churches. What are the differences between Catholics and protestants? How has the charismatic movement affected the church? Are Southern baptists different from fundamentalist baptists? It is also for discussions about the nature of the church.

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Calling all Orthodox.

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  • Calling all Orthodox.

    What convinces you that the Orthodox Church is the true church? Being raised Orhtodox? Being a convert to Orthodox?
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  • #2
    I am a convert, but I converted because I came to believe that the Orthodox Church was the closest thing to the apostolic church (and the Holy Spirit yanked), not the other way around.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • #3
      "Holy Spirit yanked"? ?

      I am not a convert, but I am curious about what reasons people have for converting to or staying in.
      The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

      [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        I am a convert, but I converted because I came to believe that the Orthodox Church was the closest thing to the apostolic church (and the Holy Spirit yanked), not the other way around.
        Please, what specifically did you note that convinced you that the Orthodox Church is truly an apostolic church? And what did you mean by "the Holy Spirit yanked?" Thanks.
        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          Please, what specifically did you note that convinced you that the Orthodox Church is truly an apostolic church? And what did you mean by "the Holy Spirit yanked?" Thanks.
          For a while, I'd been interested in reading about the early church. I was also interested in reading about the Orthodox Church, since I didn't know much about it. I was content to be a Southern Baptist, I liked my pastor and church, and wasn't interested in converting. My attitude was that I wanted to be in the church which most closely resembled the early church. I had all sorts of objections to Orthodox beliefs and practices though, like the Real Presence in the Eucharist, prayer to the saints, and confession. As I read (Protestant) authors on the early church, I recall noting that what I was reading about the Orthodox Church sounded remarkably similar (though I don't recall what jumped out at me - it was more of an overall impression). My objections to Orthodoxy were gradually resolved through debate here, but I still wasn't interested in converting. Like I said, I was comfortable where I was, and I am extremely introverted; I had no desire to have to go meet a group of complete strangers by my lonesome.

          It came to pass that one Jon Lance Barker, who was also attracted to Orthodoxy, started a thread with the intent of discussing Protestant objections to Orthodoxy. At that point, I had the feeling that if I participated in the thread I would end up converting. Naturally, I determined to avoid posting there. However, a day or so after he started the thread, Jon sent me a PM asking me to participate. With trepidation, I joined the discussion. After some time, I became convinced that I needed to convert (a month or so before Easter, 2008). An Orthodox poster on Tweb called a local priest for me (because I didn't have the courage to do so), and so I found myself driving up into DC in an attempt to find the church the next Sunday. I got thoroughly lost, eventually finding the church half an hour after the service started. I promptly drove to my old church (which had a later starting time), since I didn't want to interrupt the service.

          That Wednesday, I went to my Baptist church for the service/choir practice (I was in the choir, and really enjoyed that). The service was devoted to the Baptist North American Mission Board, and I was ...less than impressed. Then at choir practice, we were practicing the Easter cantata. It featured a spot where the choir emulates the crowd shouting for Jesus' crucifixion. They were really getting into it; I was revolted. I had determined to at least stick it out there until after the cantata so wouldn't let down the choir director, but I could not stomach being a part of that performance.

          The next Sunday I made it to the Orthodox parish in DC for my first exposure to Orthodoxy, and subsequently visited about 5 different Orthodox parishes in the area before settling down where I felt most comfortable (as the priest at my first visit suggested). I became a member that September. It wasn't until I visited my old church a few months later (I'm still a member of a bluegrass band which performs occasionally there) that I realized how ...flat it felt in comparison. I still have fond memories of that church, and there were times the Spirit moved, but going back would be like losing half my senses in comparison. Orthodox Christians talk about it being the "fullness of the faith," but that didn't really mean anything to me until I'd experienced it for myself.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #6
            One Bad Pig, Thank you.

            I'm not sure what to ask as a next question. You noted that you had some objections which were answered. Please, what would you identify as a key turning point in that regard? Or what you would identify as what helped you make your transition? Again, thanks.
            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

            Comment


            • #7
              The only "aha" moment I recall was in regards to prayer to the saints. I realized eventually that it's done because it works. Countless miracles of healing have been performed through intercessory prayer to the saints. If God honors it, why should I be against it? Otherwise, it was interesting that my objections were being resolved, but I wasn't intending to convert at that point. My conviction that my conversion was at the prompting of the Holy Spirit is what got me through it. The services were quite a bit different than what I was used to. The priest does a lot of singing/chanting, and my priest does not have a good voice for it (which would ordinarily have bugged me). He is a very down to earth man, obviously loves and cares for his people, and has helped me immensely in my spiritual growth.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                For a while, I'd been interested in reading about the early church. I was also interested in reading about the Orthodox Church, since I didn't know much about it. I was content to be a Southern Baptist, I liked my pastor and church, and wasn't interested in converting. My attitude was that I wanted to be in the church which most closely resembled the early church. I had all sorts of objections to Orthodox beliefs and practices though, like the Real Presence in the Eucharist, prayer to the saints, and confession. As I read (Protestant) authors on the early church, I recall noting that what I was reading about the Orthodox Church sounded remarkably similar (though I don't recall what jumped out at me - it was more of an overall impression). My objections to Orthodoxy were gradually resolved through debate here, but I still wasn't interested in converting. Like I said, I was comfortable where I was, and I am extremely introverted; I had no desire to have to go meet a group of complete strangers by my lonesome.

                It came to pass that one Jon Lance Barker, who was also attracted to Orthodoxy, started a thread with the intent of discussing Protestant objections to Orthodoxy. At that point, I had the feeling that if I participated in the thread I would end up converting. Naturally, I determined to avoid posting there. However, a day or so after he started the thread, Jon sent me a PM asking me to participate. With trepidation, I joined the discussion. After some time, I became convinced that I needed to convert (a month or so before Easter, 2008). An Orthodox poster on Tweb called a local priest for me (because I didn't have the courage to do so), and so I found myself driving up into DC in an attempt to find the church the next Sunday. I got thoroughly lost, eventually finding the church half an hour after the service started. I promptly drove to my old church (which had a later starting time), since I didn't want to interrupt the service.

                That Wednesday, I went to my Baptist church for the service/choir practice (I was in the choir, and really enjoyed that). The service was devoted to the Baptist North American Mission Board, and I was ...less than impressed. Then at choir practice, we were practicing the Easter cantata. It featured a spot where the choir emulates the crowd shouting for Jesus' crucifixion. They were really getting into it; I was revolted. I had determined to at least stick it out there until after the cantata so wouldn't let down the choir director, but I could not stomach being a part of that performance.

                The next Sunday I made it to the Orthodox parish in DC for my first exposure to Orthodoxy, and subsequently visited about 5 different Orthodox parishes in the area before settling down where I felt most comfortable (as the priest at my first visit suggested). I became a member that September. It wasn't until I visited my old church a few months later (I'm still a member of a bluegrass band which performs occasionally there) that I realized how ...flat it felt in comparison. I still have fond memories of that church, and there were times the Spirit moved, but going back would be like losing half my senses in comparison. Orthodox Christians talk about it being the "fullness of the faith," but that didn't really mean anything to me until I'd experienced it for myself.
                Very interesting. This answered a lot of questions I wanted to ask you.
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Very interesting, One Bad Pig. I too have no interest in converting but from when I first began studying theology in college, so many aspects of our faith just seemed to be better approached by Orthodox theology than in the West ('though I also see some good points in the West that the East seems to underemphasize). Actually, even in high school I had been profoundly influenced by the Jesus prayer and really liked The Way of the Pilgrim. Thanks for sharing your story!
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    The only "aha" moment I recall was in regards to prayer to the saints. . . .
                    Please explain your transition from believing yourself and all believers as saints, to believing in the special class of departed "saints." Or is it once believers depart, they can better answer prayers in some way? Or what am I not understanding here? Again, thank you.
                    Last edited by 37818; 05-17-2014, 03:10 PM.
                    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      Please explain your transition from believing yourself and all believers as saints, to believing in the special class of departed "saints." Or is it once believers depart, they can better answer prayers in some way? Or what am I not understanding here? Again, thank you.
                      Oh, all believers are in some sense saints, departed or not. I can ask any believer, departed or not, to pray for me. The departed saints commemorated by the church are seen as especially noteworthy in their sanctity, which is why they are especially petitioned for intercession (just as we would especially ask someone whom we highly regarded as a (living) believer to pray for us - James 5:16b). Does that help?
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Oh, all believers are in some sense saints, departed or not. I can ask any believer, departed or not, to pray for me. The departed saints commemorated by the church are seen as especially noteworthy in their sanctity, which is why they are especially petitioned for intercession (just as we would especially ask someone whom we highly regarded as a (living) believer to pray for us - James 5:16b). Does that help?
                        Yes. That answers to me your understanding on this. Thank you.

                        Please, this question then,
                        What belief, in particular changed the most between what you had believed and what you believe now?
                        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          Yes. That answers to me your understanding on this. Thank you.

                          Please, this question then,
                          What belief, in particular changed the most between what you had believed and what you believe now?
                          Good question. I don't see where my core beliefs (as defined by the Nicene Creed) changed very much at all. Perhaps the biggest change was in coming to view baptism and the Lord's Supper as more than simply symbolic.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't know what I think. I have a lot of respect for liturgical services - they seem more reverent and participatory than the bad singing and "sit down and listen" services of my Baptist background. One of these days, I'm gonna have to investigate the positions of the Catholic and Orthodox churches and see if they add up.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              I had all sorts of objections to Orthodox beliefs and practices though, like the Real Presence in the Eucharist, . . .
                              If you would please, explain how your view changed on this one issue.

                              How did your view change on John 6:53, 54? (contexts which include John 6:35, 37, 44-45, 47, 63-65. 70-71, . . .) How from not referring to the Eucharist to the interpretation that is does?

                              And on the Lord's table, as the Eucharist, in,
                              Also 1 Corinthians 10:. . . 17, 1 Corinthians 11:. . . 23-26 . . . , Luke 22:19-21 [John 6:70-71].
                              Last edited by 37818; 05-21-2014, 03:23 PM.
                              . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                              Comment

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