Changing the Lord's Prayer

[lee_merrill]

Now that the pope has changed the Lord's Prayer, John Piper weighs in. The change in question is changing "lead us not into temptation" to "do not let us fall into temptation" (in Mt. 6:13).

Source: John Piper

Source

© Copyright Original Source

Piper then goes on to point out that the Spirit led Jesus himself into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil (Mt. 4:1).

Blessings,
Lee

[mossrose]

Who dares change the words of Christ?

No man. Regardless of how highly he thinks of himself, the pope does not have the authority to change anything that Christ has said!

[Terraceth]

I believe no change has occurred in English. This was an adjustment to the Italian liturgical translation of the prayer. Many do expect a similar change to occur in English, but it hasn't happened yet.

Who dares change the words of Christ?

No man. Regardless of how highly he thinks of himself, the pope does not have the authority to change anything that Christ has said!

It's a change of translation; it's no more "changing" what Christ said than one Bible translation using a different phrasing than a previous one is "changing" the words of Christ.

Now if someone wants to argue it's not a good translation, that could be a valid position. But it's silly to equate a change in translation to "changing" the words of Christ when every translation is inherently doing that.

[lee_merrill]

Now if someone wants to argue it's not a good translation, that could be a valid position.

Indeed, John Piper is arguing that the change is incorrect, and for the wrong reason.

But it's silly to equate a change in translation to "changing" the words of Christ when every translation is inherently doing that.

Well, this is a substantial change, which changes the meaning of the phrase. So I could see why mossrose is saying Christ's words have been changed.

Blessings,
Lee

[Cow Poke]

I still think that John 17 is "the Lord's Prayer", and the one that we call "the Lord's Prayer" is more aptly named "the model prayer".

[NorrinRadd]

In his Kingdom New Testament, N.T. Wright renders it, "Don't bring us into the great trial..."

Keener's notes in the IVP Bible Background Commentary

[Sparko]

Who dares change the words of Christ?

No man. Regardless of how highly he thinks of himself, the pope does not have the authority to change anything that Christ has said!

Well then he needs to be quoting Christ in Aramaic, right?

[Cow Poke]

Well then he needs to be quoting Christ in Aramaic, right?

Come on, you know that Jesus spoke perfect English with a British accent -- I've heard the Dead Sea Cassette Tapes that were discovered in the caves.

[Sparko]

Come on, you know that Jesus spoke perfect English with a British accent -- I've heard the Dead Sea Cassette Tapes that were discovered in the caves.

I saw The Passion of the Christ and he spoke Aramaic!

[One Bad Pig]

I still think that John 17 is "the Lord's Prayer", and the one that we call "the Lord's Prayer" is more aptly named "the model prayer".

I think this is mostly an English issue; AFAIR the traditional liturgical languages tend to refer to it as the "Our Father".

In the English Orthodox tradition, the argument is over the translation of the next line; is it "but deliver us from evil" or "but deliver us from the evil one"?

[Cow Poke]

I think this is mostly an English issue; AFAIR the traditional liturgical languages tend to refer to it as the "Our Father".

That's an interesting point. I was in a hospital room with a friend of a Church member, and that person's mother asked me, as Pastor, to "lead us in 'Our Father'". I honestly didn't know what they were talking about, and she said, "You know, the Lord's Prayer". OH, YES!!!!!

In the English Orthodox tradition, the argument is over the translation of the next line; is it "but deliver us from evil" or "but deliver us from the evil one"?

I'm familiar with that argument.

[Cow Poke]

I saw The Passion of the Christ and he spoke Aramaic!

Yeah, that was all Mel Gibson's fault, and his "Old Catholic" obsession.

[mossrose]

Then I guess I should have said that anybody can change whatever they want to and just call it a new translation and it's all good.

Have it your own way, guys.

[Sparko]

Then I guess I should have said that anybody can change whatever they want to and just call it a new translation and it's all good.

Have it your own way, guys.

I don't really see a problem in what the pope changed. The meaning is the same. It is obvious that God doesn't lead us into temptation. He is not the source of temptation, nor does he want us to fall into it, or give into it. So the meaning of the verse is clearly not to let temptation gain control over us, to give us the strength to resist it.

[Thoughtful Monk]

Now that the pope has changed the Lord's Prayer, John Piper weighs in. The change in question is changing "lead us not into temptation" to "do not let us fall into temptation" (in Mt. 6:13).

Source: John Piper

Source

© Copyright Original Source

Piper then goes on to point out that the Spirit led Jesus himself into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil (Mt. 4:1).

Blessings,
Lee

I remember seeing an on-line headline like 'Pope Makes Big Change to Lord's Prayer.' Before I read the article I was thinking it was something like he changed "Our Father" to "Our Parent."

Then I read the article and reflected on how the secular media doesn't understand enough about Christian beliefs to know the difference between a tweak and a big change.

I then went back to sleep.