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Believer's Baptism

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  • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    I got a bit careless there, by neglecting the subsequent verses in Matt. and Luke. I don't think the fire accompanies the Spirit in those passages. I think the sense is that everyone collectively will be baptized, some with the Spirit, all others with the fire of eternal destruction.

    I acknowledge that in Acts 2, that is not the case. I think there it's possible that the flame-like manifestation might have been intended to call the words of John the Baptizer to their remembrance, but mostly I think it was an attention-grabber and symbol of purification.
    I put some weight on the references by Jesus to his forthcoming baptism, which refers to his crucifixion (or more generally, the passion). At the same time I note that nothing explicit makes that connection - but agreed, nothing whatever connects the tongues of flame in Acts 2 with baptism of fire. (I note that "baptism of fire" was sometime in history adopted to indicate an initiation through conflict and suffering. The use of the term and the meaning seem logically connected with the scriptural usage here, and one which seemingly caused no difficulty for the disciples to understand.)

    Given that Paul identifies baptism as baptism into Christ - coupled with the Acts references where one group was baptised into Christ before being baptised into the Holy Spirit despite having received John's baptism, and another group who had been baptised into Christ were accordingly baptised into the Holy Spirit, the two baptisms appear to have different effects. Minimally - baptism in water is a matter of repentance from and the remission of sins (or at least, attending repentance and remission) and brings the member to be in Christ, and - baptism in the Spirit lends power and knits the member into the body of Christ.

    I consider that a solid foundation exists for believing that baptism in water is not superseded by baptism in the Holy Spirit.

    A case could possibly be made that both are necessary for baptism to be complete, however.

    Therefore, I believe that the correct explanation is: Christ baptises into the Holy Spirit (either directly, or through the laying on of hands by authorised delegates); and authorised delegates baptise into Christ.
    Last edited by tabibito; 06-02-2019, 09:55 AM.
    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω


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