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Question about Catholicism and separation of church and state

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  • Question about Catholicism and separation of church and state

    I recently saw a Catholic argue that separation of church and state is heretical within Catholicism according to Pope Pius IX. Practically speaking, is whatever he actually said still considered to be in force? In what way?

    (This particular part of the Internet has a number of Catholic monarchists.)
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  • #2
    I know Leonhard spoke against the separation of church and state a while back. I'm thinking he said something about it being "anti-Catholic", or something along those lines.

    Comment


    • #3
      Could this be part of it?

      UNE FOIS ENCORE (On the Separation of Church and State)
      Pope Pius X

      4. Recourse to God, so infinitely good, is all the more necessary because, far from abating, the struggle grows fiercer and expands unceasingly. It is no longer only the Christian faith that they would uproot at all costs from the hearts of the people; it is any belief which lifting man above the horizon of this world would supernaturally bring back his wearied eyes to heaven. Illusion on the subject is no longer possible. War has been declared against everything supernatural, because behind the supernatural stands God, and because it is God that they want to tear out of the mind and heart of man.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        or this?

        On the Separation of Church and State: Pope Francis vs. Pope Pius X

        "That the State must be separated from the Church," said the great (and actually humble) Pope Pius in Vehementer Nos, "is a thesis absolutely false, a most pernicious error. Based, as it is, on the principle that the State must not recognize any religious cult, it is in the first place guilty of a great injustice to God; for the Creator of man is also the Founder of human societies, and preserves their existence as He preserves our own. We owe Him, therefore, not only a private cult, but a public and social worship to honor Him..."
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          This is an interesting topic to me, so I've been doing some more digging...

          Here's an interesting video explaining that the Catholic Church cannot support "separation of church and state", but the guy clarifies it as a "distinction" not a "separation". And he takes it back to Pope Pius IX.

          http://taylormarshall.com/2015/09/ca...and-state.html

          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            Are you confusing Pius IX and Pius X?
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              Are you confusing Pius IX and Pius X?
              No sir, I have references to both. It was an interesting topic, so I shared what I found.

              I realized my earlier references were commentary by X, so I kept digging, hence....

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              This is an interesting topic to me, so I've been doing some more digging...

              Here's an interesting video explaining that the Catholic Church cannot support "separation of church and state", but the guy clarifies it as a "distinction" not a "separation". And he takes it back to Pope Pius IX.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                No sir, I have references to both. It was an interesting topic, so I shared what I found.

                I realized my earlier references were commentary by X, so I kept digging, hence....
                So you WERE confusing them at first.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  So you WERE confusing them at first.
                  No sir, I knew that was X, because I couldn't find anything on IX -- so I was offering what I could find. Initially, I couldn't find anything on IX.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    No sir, I knew that was X, because I couldn't find anything on IX -- so I was offering what I could find. Initially, I couldn't find anything on IX.
                    Are y'all talking about iPhones? I still have a 6 Plus.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Are y'all talking about iPhones? I still have a 6 Plus.

                      I have the 6 plus senior adult large print version.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Are y'all talking about iPhones?
                        Nah, they're talking of them Toyotas.
                        ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                          Nah, they're talking of them Toyotas.
                          One of these?


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            One of these?



                            That's what I said.
                            ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              I recently saw a Catholic argue that separation of church and state is heretical within Catholicism according to Pope Pius IX. Practically speaking, is whatever he actually said still considered to be in force? In what way?

                              (This particular part of the Internet has a number of Catholic monarchists.)
                              Pius IX handles the matter briefly in the 1864 Syllabus of Errors: “The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church." (No. 55)

                              http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9syll.htm

                              I suspect that is what at the bottom of all this.

                              Comment

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