Are we supposed to imagine that the angels and saints in heaven only hear by mechanical sound vibrations and physical ears?
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This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.
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Praying to Mary is worshiping Mary
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI guess you could always play on the word 'fully'. Maria doesn't need exhaustive knowledge, in principle she just needs your prayer intentions. Since you're quite capable of delivering those verbally, then even by your own standards Maria doesn't need knowledge that goes beyond verbal communication.
Not all prayers are give verbally thus your point collapses.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostYou still ignore my questions, and get mad for not answering every little bit from you.
This is what you asked in Post 57:
Why is it important for the prayers to be silent?
Do you consider spoken prayers to be a problem as well?
And knowing the prayers of people is equivalent with knowing the content of their hearts?
Here is my post 58
The conversation is rapidly ceasing because you refuse to see how words are PROPERLY defined - why would you "ignore" about God being the heart-knower?
ANSWER TO YOUR FIRST AND SECOND QUESTIONS:Silent prayers prove that when the word "prayed" is used in reference to people addressing other people it is not in the same sense as when it is used of people addressing God. Notice further that when it is used of people addressing other people it is not multiple people with various needs all addressing the person at the same time and having that person fully understand every thing that was being said.
ANSWER TO QUESTION NUMBER 3: Fully knowing the prayers of people is equivalent to fully knowing the contents of their hearts.Last edited by foudroyant; 04-03-2014, 10:34 PM.
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Originally posted by foudroyant View PostNot sure but they do not fully know the hearts.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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I don't know if they teach if others fully know the hearts of all people - in practice they do. This is why I wrote in the OP:
So by praying to Mary Roman Catholics (whether they realize it or not) are ascribing knowledge to her that is reserved for God alone.
In Post 20 Spartacus affirms that others knowing the hearts is possible.
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Originally posted by foudroyant View PostI have never seen kardiognwsta defined as such.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by foudroyant View PostIf one knows the totality of all hearts of all people that is stating they are omniscient.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by foudroyant View PostI don't know if they teach if others fully know the hearts of all people - in practice they do. This is why I wrote in the OP:
So by praying to Mary Roman Catholics (whether they realize it or not) are ascribing knowledge to her that is reserved for God alone.
In Post 20 Spartacus affirms that others knowing the hearts is possible.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
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